Miles, Points, Casino Loyalty, Travel, and ZorkFest 2025 – Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast
Join host Justin Vacula on the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast as he discusses how to travel at low cost using points & miles and credit cards.
Special guest Joseph Petrovic shares his experience with miles & points and the upcoming event ZorkFest 2025.
Justin and Joe also delve into topics like credit card rewards, casino loyalty programs, travel, autism, and unique experiences such as high-end trips to Japan, family vacations, and cruises.
Learn the benefits of credit cards, tips on maximizing rewards, and how events like ZorkFest offer a deep dive into miles, points, and gambling content.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Low-Cost Travel with Points and Miles
00:46 Guest Introduction: Joseph Petrovic
02:02 Chicago Seminars Hyatt Regency Experience
02:24 The Evolution of Travel Conferences
04:39 Maximizing Credit Card Benefits
08:41 Family Travel Adventures
12:34 The Impact of Credit Cards on Travel
16:25 Navigating the Changing Travel Landscape
18:16 Exploring Train Travel and Future Plans
21:07 Combining Miles, Points, and Gambling at ZorkFest
25:15 Upcoming Events and CardPointers
28:35 Maximizing Casino Rewards
29:38 Monthly Travel Meetups
30:10 Changes in Reward Programs
31:32 Upcoming Events and Speaking Engagements
32:10 Introduction to ZorkFest
32:23 Gambling and Credit Card Strategies
34:59 ZorkFest Schedule and Sessions
40:44 Personal Experiences
50:54 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
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Rough Transcript:
Theme Song: [00:00:00] Travel at low cost with points and miles. Credit card rewards bring the smiles. Many adventures tales to be told, make and save money, the world will unfold.
Fight the war on happiness. Pick up the gold. Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast breaks the mold.
Justin Vacula: You’re listening to the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast, I’m your host, Vacula, here to help you make money, save money, and travel the world at next to no cost with credit card points, miles, benefits, and loyalty programs. Joseph Petrovic joins me to talk about his experience with miles and points and the upcoming Miles points and gambling event ZorkFest.
Taking place December, 2025. Visit [00:01:00] meetup.com/PhillyMilesAndPoints to RSVP for monthly Greater Philadelphia Travel Credit Miles and Points meetups I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. Next meetups are November 23rd and December 21st, 2025. Find a link in the show notes for more content between shows.
Follow Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast on Facebook and x. Follow Justin Vacula on Instagram. Subscribe to Hurdy Gurdy Travel podcast on YouTube for daily content including travel videos podcast clips and posts. Find more information, including select episode transcripts at HurdyGurdyTravel.com. On with today’s episode recorded November 11th, 2025.
Welcome back to the podcast, Joseph Petrovic.
Joseph Petrovic: Hey, Justin. Nice to be back.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, it’s been a while since we recorded, so now a great time to chat in 2025.
Joseph Petrovic: And so long since we’ve seen each other too. I think it’s, we’re up to what, 2 48 [00:02:00] hours now or so?
Justin Vacula: Yes. We were at Chicago Seminars, Hyatt Regency and I made it back even though there were some flight delays.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, I didn’t get stuck too much. Everything went very well for me, but I think a lot of people, others who were trying to get out weren’t as fortunate.
Justin Vacula: The escape from Chicago. And how was your experience at Chicago Seminars?
Joseph Petrovic: That was my fourth visit to Chicago Seminars and the second as a speaker. So I first went in 2018, that was my third conference that particular year.
And then I went again and returned in 2019 as I had made some progression since and took many years off. Returned in 2024 as a speaker and again this year as a speaker. And uh, it was fun getting to meet up with people who. I’ve gotten to know throughout the community all these years as well as meet so many new people, and [00:03:00] there were a lot of new people at this particular conference.
Specifically at my session, I’d say probably 60% of the people were brand new or more at my session, but I hear that it’s. Somewhere in half of the attendees were brand new, and my very first year in 2018, I would venture to say that most of the people who were attending were not new. So it’s an interesting twist in how I’ve seen this conference advanced throughout the years
Justin Vacula: and maybe a different subset of new to Chicago seminars new to miles and points.
Some both. As there were people that had very intro questions and they said that they were just getting into miles and points, but there are some who attended Chicago seminars who’ve been in miles and points for some time, but they just simply haven’t gone to an event.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the events are really where things start coming together because you get to socialize with a group of others who share that interest and [00:04:00] passion.
We all have in this space, and it’s a lot of times people in this space get the look of disgust. When you start talking miles and points to the everyday friends and relatives and having a bunch of others who share that passion really makes a difference.
Justin Vacula: It was a really friendly crowd just going up to people and chatting people, approaching me.
I was a speaker as well and people were asking me all throughout the event, so it was cool to have these. Conversations and some people asking more advanced questions as well, and thinking about how to better optimize our miles and points, earning and burning
Joseph Petrovic: for sure. It’s something that it takes both pieces to this.
Everybody, I think, as they’re getting started, really wants to know how to earn them, but if you’re really wanting to take this further, then learning how to burn them as well really is an important aspect of this entire space.
Justin Vacula: And it’s really been life [00:05:00] changing for you as well as this has opened a lot of opportunities for you to travel more and travel with better accommodations too.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, 100%. The things that I’ve been able to accomplish in this space since starting in 2018, I always call that my starting year, but realistically, I started at the end of 2014. It just wasn’t till the. Beginning of 2018 that I started to take this much more seriously because I realized that there were pieces to the puzzle that I wasn’t really understanding.
I was looking at a lot of the blogs that I was following back in the day, and I followed the One Mile at a Time and View from The Wing and The Points Guy, and a lot of different blogs. But my favorite was God Save the Points, and I always saw him doing these amazing things that I, I could never understand why I wasn’t able to do that.
Until I started understanding some of these various flexible point currencies that exist. And with those in [00:06:00] mind, I started digging in further. And like I said, 2018, I attended four separate travel points and miles conferences of which one of them will be getting into here with our main topic. But it was really my start to it, and I, it felt like these were going to help me along the way.
They were an investment into what I wanted to do. My wife had really come to me. She said, Hey, I want to do more. I want to not just sit home and pay bills and do nothing but work and pay bills all the time, which is where I was at prior to jumping into the award travel and lows and points. Space. 2018 was that game changer for me, and once we started getting into it, there were a bunch of rabbit holes I went down and really never have come back up since.
Justin Vacula: You found that the answer to everything was more credit
Joseph Petrovic: cards? Yeah, we’re, I’m starting to look at how to adjust some of those because [00:07:00] I’ve opened so many at my most, I think I had nearly 60 cards. I hit 58 and I started pairing some of those back because they are just multiples of things that I couldn’t maximize anymore.
They were great for the welcome offers and then some of the perks and benefits that came along with them, but the. Increased fees that keep going along with them, along with the redundancies in earning potential. Just don’t justify long-term keeping.
Justin Vacula: Yes, it’s as usual America, loving math, trying to do the math on the annual fees, the benefits, and making sure you’re getting that value rather than, I’ve encountered some people outside of miles and points events and I remember someone saying, oh yeah, I pay the annual fee for the Amex platinum card.
I like using the lounges. I asked that person, okay, what about this benefit? That benefit? Oh no, I don’t really do that. Oh, I don’t think that’s worth my time. And they’re paying something at that time, probably 5 95. Now it’s even higher for lounge [00:08:00] access. So we’re hoping to encourage listeners to take advantage of the benefits, or if you don’t see those other benefits is worthwhile.
Maybe downgrade or cancel a card. You’re not married to it for life.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah. There are some people out there that, it’s just a status feature too. It’s, I get it for, so I can go to the lounges with that. I always use my Amex platinum card when I go dining and it’s some of those type of people spend healthily eating out and could benefit from going to the Amex gold where they could.
Quadruple their earning potential. It’s making sure you have the right mix of cards that are gonna fit your needs as well,
Justin Vacula: and expanding travel. You’re not just solo traveling, you’ve been traveling with your son pretty often as well.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, the, when I first started this, like I had mentioned earlier, I got started because my wife wanted to travel and we had two young kids.
We were looking for ways that we could afford to travel more or better, [00:09:00] and I was really a budget traveler to begin with. I really focused on budget airlines like Spirit and Frontier, and I’d apply the others to Southwestern United when possible, where I could find a deal or a cheap fare that are so much harder to find these days on cash.
I didn’t really have any miles of points. I opened a few cards casually here and there, but I started jumping on these different opportunities that popped up where I could get a card that would give me status, like I got the United Club card way back in the day and it offered Hyatt status and that Hyatt status was able to convert to some of the casino statuses, and eventually I jumped on the hole.
Casino status, what I think Dave Grossman trademarked or did something with where it became the status match, mayor go round where you could just keep getting status over and over. All of these things were things that I was trying to use to enhance the [00:10:00] travel for our family and make travel for our family better.
And I’ve been doing a lot of solo travel, but when it makes sense, but I’ve also continued to travel with my son. Last year, for example, he finished and graduated high school. He is autistic, so he, but he’s pretty high functioning on the spectrum and so he finished early and my wife and daughter still had school for three more weeks and we took off and spent eight days traveling to Hawaii.
And it was something that I got to do because of. Miles and points, and we flew in the brand new 7 87 Dreamliner Suites on Hawaiian, which is now Alaska, and I think most of those planes are going to Seattle and then flying either to Seoul or to, I think they’re looking at some Europe browse in the future.
But those are things that we got to do. I’ve done a lot of travel with him that just wouldn’t have been possible. Without travel rewards, and a lot of those have been [00:11:00] in live flat seats, which is unconventional for what many consider to be domestic travel experiences.
Justin Vacula: Otherwise, it would’ve been really expensive and you probably wouldn’t have taken those or you would’ve just been any economy and the accommodations not so.
Joseph Petrovic: No, we got to Maui and the suite we had at the Andaz Maui was just above and beyond what I ever expected to ever be staying at. I came from a family who traveled very inexpensively when I was younger. I think I maybe mentioned this before when I was on with you some, I think it’s been maybe what, two years ago or so, but that my family was a Dave Ramsey acolyte family, so they are Dave Ramsey followers.
Have many of those mentalities, which is why they continue to follow him to this day, despite not needing any of his advice and doing quite well for themselves. But we always stayed at Days Inn [00:12:00] or Ramada or Red Roof or a Holiday Inn was super fancy for us, and that was my dad’s choice of stay in his early road Warrior Days, staying at Hilton’s, Marriott, Hyatt.
Those types of places were never places that I’d. Expect to stay at and then to even stay at something that had suite, then multiple bedrooms and kitchens and the beachfront, Oceanside balconies that are massive are things that I never would’ve expected to have without this space.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. Steve Ramsey often telling people that they should pay for travel and not use credit cards.
He’s saying that for everyone, but meanwhile, we can use credit responsibly. Know what we’re getting into, be educated about what we’re doing and get good value out of our points. Where he will often say things like, oh, you have to spend a hundred thousand dollars on Discover to get a thousand dollars, and [00:13:00] dismiss that saying That’s not a good financial plan.
But of course, that’s not the plan that we’re suggesting to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a Discover credit card.
Joseph Petrovic: I think a lot of things that people push out there are certain are to further certain agendas that are narrowly viewed. And if you look at it and say, Hey, I have to spend a hundred thousand dollars to get a thousand dollars back, that’s stupid, silly, but if you understand that, hey, I can sign up for this card, I might have to pay an annual fee and maybe even pay a very large annual fee.
If you can withdraw the value that’s far in excess of that, that you would put in. For example, that Amex platinum card that you had mentioned, which now has an $895 fee. There are tons of credits that come with that card. And while I can’t use all of the credits on that card, if you strategize the timing of getting that card, for example, you pick up the card sometime in early to [00:14:00] mid December-ish.
Use all the credits that I could use. You can withdraw something over $4,000 worth of value. Forgetting about the points that you’ll get with the welcome offer and earning potential of it, you’ll, you could withdraw almost $4,500 worth of value. Utilizing all of its current credits before the annual fee comes due this second time, which I think is just incredible.
You have to look at those things and determine when it’s going to make the most sense for you to do something like that. And with that, you have to know a little bit about strategizing and timing with all of this. Just like anything in life. If you’re making an investment, you ha you. You don’t wanna go in and say, Hey, I’m gonna buy it, its peak, and then watch everything crash.
And that’s what happens to a lot of people who just jump in and think, oh, I’m gonna use miles and points and then fail because they don’t realize that there are certain timing to all of this as well. [00:15:00]
Justin Vacula: And for people just getting started, usually I would recommend no annual fee, credit cards, or maybe a credit card with a $95 annual fee that has a really significant signup bonus.
And we’ve certainly seen. A lot of those to go back, as you mentioned, a lot of us signed up for the Wyndham Earner business card. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great card. This was 95, 90 $9 annual fee. I got in, I believe around 60,000 Wyndham points. It was worth at least $600. And then we had the opportunity to match Wyndham Diamond status to Caesar’s right Diamond status, which gave us a hundred dollars dinner, waived resort fees and the potential to match that status to other programs and get complimentary cruises.
Right. So that was a huge. Value proposition when that was a thing. But of course, the war on happiness struck him. No more automatic Caesars Diamond status. But since we’ve talked about different ways to get that status, maybe through playing video poker during a tier multiplier day with Caesars, maybe some Caesars [00:16:00] credit cards or going another route I presented about in Chicago of getting MGM credit cards and spending your way for status.
Also getting a complimentary cruise, a hundred dollars dining credit, and other benefits. So stat is matching a little bit harder nowadays, but I wouldn’t say that it’s dead. It’s just a different route as the game changes, as it often does.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah. There’s so many things in this space that are so different from when I started, and I think for any pe, anybody who actually started in this space.
During the early days of the pandemic, and as we exited those times, I think even they could say there’s been massive changes because we’ve seen a rapid ascent to travel again. And I think a lot of people, mostly the travel companies themselves, the airlines and hotels did not expect the return that they got.
And so they got rid of planes and they got rid of [00:17:00] staff, and they did a lot of things that. Really were expected based on the times after nine 11. It took a long time after nine 11 for travel to return, and that’s really what the pandemic modeling was set to was how travel returned after the September 11th tragedies and since it took so long, they modeled the return to travel like that.
I don’t think they had any inkling that travel would return so fast and with the rage it did. And then when it did, everything got overburdened and got much more expensive. And that’s again, where having access to these different loyalty points and fake currencies really help all of us out.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. So to use the resources we have adjust as conditions shift.
And just make informed choices and sharing that with others. As you mentioned, your son [00:18:00] who’s on the spectrum. I had a past podcast guest, purple Princess Perry Kim from the show. Love On the Spectrum. We talked about train travel, but in your case, you were doing plane travel or did you add any train travel in addition to the plane travel?
Joseph Petrovic: I have not done much in train travel with my son. That’s something I, I have a strong interest in Japan, and that’s a long story as to how it came to be, but it did come to be, and in Japan they have their xans, they have their local trains, they have their commuter trains, and there’s a lot of train travel throughout Japan.
And as I’ve been studying the culture and language, it’s, it’s been fun to do that. And I would love to take him someday, and I’m trying to get him prepped, but. He, despite having gone to Hawaii twice on live, flat, steep, he’s still convinced to some degree that he can’t do long flights, and that’s part of why I actually wanted to take him again.
We’d [00:19:00] had gone to Hawaii. That was the very first long haul we did. Delta one courtesy of Virgin Atlantic points from Detroit to Honolulu back in 2019. I wanted him to remember that he can do this and he can do longer haul travel. So part of the reason that I set up that trip was that it was, and by the way, I did that on a, on about four weeks notice.
It was not planned out. But I wanted him to remember that he can do long-haul travel. ’cause typically the most flying that he we would do at any time is to Florida. And it’s about two and a half-ish hours from my hometown of Cleveland. To the Tampa or Orlando area and once in a while we’ve gone out to California, which is four to five hours in total travel.
Whether we end up connecting through Chicago or going nonstop. It’s something that is, uh, I would like to do with him because I think he’d find it fascinating and he [00:20:00] has loved trains throughout his life. But getting him there is where I have to get him to that first.
Justin Vacula: Starting small and scaling up. A usual suggestion in the miles and points game and maybe some other domestic trains, maybe the MBTA in Boston where Perry is from.
A nice system there.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, we actually took that last month, my wife and I, while we were out there and I wanted to play around with that a bit just because I’m typically a person who, wherever I go, I rent a car. ’cause I like exploring places and I’ve been trying more. Lately to use public transportation systems and get used to getting around without those.
So whether it’s trains, whether it’s bus systems, whether it’s taxis, ride share, anything like that. Utilizing tho all those Amex Platinum and gold credits through Uber. I’m trying to find ways to minimize our costs as well, but to be more amongst the people as I’m [00:21:00] trying to see what it’s like to be in those places and get a feel for.
How to maneuver like everybody else.
Justin Vacula: And you’ve joined a different type of community with Zor Fest, combining Miles Points and gambling. How did you get involved with the gambling portion and the gambling community?
Joseph Petrovic: So with the, with Zork Fest, I’ve never been heavy in gambling. It’s just something that was always the flashiness that in the movies, that in entertainment and any place that you go, there’s always a little bit of thrill and excitement about Las Vegas.
I first went to Las Vegas back in 2014 with my wife, and we did it in as inexpensively as we possibly could be. It all on cash at that point. It was something that I looked at and said you could travel to Las Vegas. You could experience elevated travel experiences like the hotels and the luxuries, but you could have really nice meals and they were inexpensive, and that [00:22:00] proposition has changed a lot with over the years with Vegas.
But using these travel rewards and programs can help reduce our cost. I know that Vegas is much more expensive today for most people traveling. But all these years later, despite the expensive hotel suites or rooms and things like that, some of the expensive food costs that travel to get there, I can still do this way less for way less money outta my pocket utilizing these travel rewards programs.
And so when I saw the So best program pop up and I remember that. Or Gilbert Ott from Gods Save The Points had put out a link for Zork Fest in 2018. He did a blog post, and like I said earlier, he was my favorite blogger in the space and he said, Hey, come join me. I’ll be speaking at Zork Fest. And I figured this is the perfect opportunity to learn a little bit more about that intersection of travel [00:23:00] and loyalty along with casino loyalty.
I think it was just an interesting mix of people because I had a bunch of my favorite people that I got to meet at that particular event. I got to meet the person who was responsible for writing most of the articles at the Points guy that were my favorite articles, and that was Richard Kerr, who was the founder of the award Travel 1 0 1 Community by Award Wallet.
So that was something that was interesting to me as well at Pizzer from the Miles to Go podcast and Pizza and Motion blog was there. A lot of the people that I just really seemingly connected with were at this particular event and it just, just kind of history. It was where things got that in stone for me where I, ’cause I was very close to giving up.
I, that was my second conference that I had attended at that point. I was just struggling. I was like, how are all these people doing such amazing travel? And I’m sitting here flying Southwest in [00:24:00] Frontier still and collecting United Miles and Southwest Rapid rewards points, but I’m not able to do all these other things.
And it was just that I didn’t understand all the tools that were available to me, and I didn’t understand the difference between flexible currencies and fixed award currencies that are. Based on a particular program.
Justin Vacula: Good. So it was a nice moment for you that turned things around and you got more inspired to level up your game?
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah. 2018 Zork Fest was the second one that was there, and then I attended again with a friend in 21 and 23 and by myself again last year in 2024, where. I’ve connected with you a few times. So 2025 will be my, let’s see, 1, 2, 3, 4. My fifth Zork best event. And this time Michael Traeger, the events organizer, had asked me to help coordinate some of the award travel and miles and points events along with [00:25:00] him as he’s working on the bigger experience overall.
And with that in mind, I’ve. I think I’ve organized some pretty awesome things that are going to go on at this year’s event.
Justin Vacula: Great. We’ll talk about that. But first, take a break. That’s Zork Fest 2025 Las Vegas. December 5th through the seventh we’ll be at M Resort Casino Hotel Zork Fest combines miles points and gambling content all in one weekend.
I’ll be there speaking at connecting with podcast listeners. Buy your ticket@zorkfest.travel zork.com. Use promo code HurdyGurdy to support the show. And you’ll see Joseph Petrovic, today’s guest at Zorkfest, Chicago Seminar’s Hyatt Regency O’Hare recently concluded. Stay tuned for announcements dates for 2026.
The event formerly known as the Chicago Seminar’s Heritage Edition at Holiday Inn was renamed as the Chicago Points Travel Festival and will take place [00:26:00] October 16th through the 18th, 2026. Use promo code HurdyGurdy and join the waitlist if you still can because the event is already sold out. Next, this episode is supported by card pointers.
If you have multiple credit cards like me, card pointers helps you automatically activate bank offers and knows which card to use. For maximum rewards card pointers saves me time and money, use my link CardPointers.com/HurdyGurdyTravel for a discount on annual and lifetime plans. Joe, I think you’ve been using card pointers for quite a while too.
Joseph Petrovic: I think it’s another one of those tools that you learn, that you pay a little bit for a subscription, and for me, I saw the value right away in what the potential and possibility of that tool was to be able to maximize. All of the Amex offers that I get, and not only those, but some, sometimes they, it shows me a surprise one, it’s one that I didn’t even realize was added, and I go and spend and all of a sudden I get a surprise, Hey, you got [00:27:00] $20 back, and it’s very much worth that I’ve saved probably a thousand dollars and multiple times what I paid for a lifetime subscription of card pointers.
Justin Vacula: So it automatically activates offers. Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t have clicked that particular offer. You would’ve missed it, and in this case, you were able to profit through an automated process.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, it’s something that I think, again, like I said, there are so many tools out there that people can learn from listening to you and others in this.
Taking advantage of the tools that will help them. The more cards you get, I have 56 cards currently, but the more cards you currently have, the more that it, it gets harder and harder to track all these things. So you get a tool like card pointer that just automatically adds all these tools to your cards and you don’t have to think about it.
All you do is say, Hey, what offers are on my cards? And then go to what stores am I going to? And you can see what offers are on which cards and utilize all of [00:28:00] them. Sometimes you. You might have a $20 off $75 purchase, and instead of going and spending $300 on something, you can break up your purchase into four different $75 purchases and save, you know, a hundred dollars.
That’s a big, huge savings right there, just by using multiple cards rather than just paying with one
Justin Vacula: split tender, breaking up that transaction across multiple cards. And 50 plus credit cards. Have you deployed the phone Army? You have five plus phones ready to go earning your My Vegas rewards?
Joseph Petrovic: I’ve never gotten into that.
I actually haven’t opened that app and I have millions and millions of casino rewards. And then the gold, I don’t remember what I’m at anymore, but I know I still have probably. I don’t remember. It was like five, 6 million of the gold coins. I don’t know if they’re worth anything still or, oh yes, always. I purchased a lot of 20
Justin Vacula: off of 40 food credits, 25 off of [00:29:00] 50, 25 match play, 15 match play, and I used some of the points this time for two complimentary nights at Park MGM.
I’ll have to, so I’m getting some really high value there. Hopefully you can deploy your points. For the upcoming December trip, I was gonna say I was
Joseph Petrovic: gonna have to open up the app because my phone, my old phone crashed like a week or two ago and it was, and everything just die, died. I didn’t have it anything but my contacts and calendar backed up to the clouds, so pretty much lost everything.
But I can re-log into those and see what I can utilize. When we’re in
Justin Vacula: Vegas, you’re alive in the cloud. Next up, I host monthly travel and points meetups in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. Next meetups are November 23rd and December 21st, 2025. If you’re local or wanna make the trip, it’s a fun casual way to talk point strategies.
Meet like-minded travelers and share ideas. RSVP at meetup.com/PhillyMilesAndPoints in addition to meetings, [00:30:00] check for new social events. This is held inside of Giant in Pennsylvania, the grocery store Giant. Not to be confused with the giant eagle in Ohio, America loves confusion.
Joseph Petrovic: They have really, like all these other programs, have changed their program quite a bit and I think confused them, most people, to such an extent that they don’t know all the value they’ve lost from the program as they’ve continued to reduce what it can do by.
Supposedly adding more things to use it for.
Justin Vacula: It was an enhancement.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, an enhancement to make it more usable to people, but realistically cut the value into a third of what it used to be able to return. And by way of, if you become a, I guess one of their more higher tier elite members, then you can get just half of what it used to return.
It’s not quite as good, but there are still times where you can get some value out of it. Just nothing. I, I used to get thousands and [00:31:00] thousands of dollars a year in fuel rewards from that program, and today I’d probably say it’s in the hundreds instead of thousands
Justin Vacula: War on happiness again.
Joseph Petrovic: Of course. And that’s part of why people should come to ZorkFest is that there’s gonna be a lot of interesting sessions that we are going to be able to give them a lot of value for their money.
Justin Vacula: Yes, finding more ways to save money on gas, groceries, hotel stays, and much more. We’ll definitely deliver on that. Finally, I’ll be speaking with Frequent Traveler University in Irving, Texas, just outside Dallas from May 1st through the third 2026 at the Nylo Las Hotel by Hilton. Hopefully got that one correct.
Join me and community members for social events and educational sessions. Ticket sales are live $200 for FTU members and $249 for non-members. You can grab an FTU annual membership [00:32:00] for online courses, seminars, member perks, event discounts, and more. Sign up link for membership, and FTU Dallas is in the show notes.
But let’s get back to Las Vegas. I’m speaking today with Joseph Petrovic about ZorkFest in Las Vegas. We mentioned it’s a points, miles, and gambling event. Why do you think that Miles and points people should be interested in the gambling portion?
Joseph Petrovic: That’s a way to utilize some spend opportunities that they may not have been aware were available to them.
A lot of people who are just getting started look at a lot of these credit cards and they say, I’m never going to be able to meet that spend. I just don’t spend that much money. I think that was something all of us who are just getting started come across. I know that when I looked at it, I remember the times when the Amex Platinum, the [00:33:00] $450 Amex Platinum and the $450, I think it was maybe even 3 95.
At one point, chase Sapphire Reserve card had a hundred thousand point bonuses, which were huge at the time. Most cards had. Somewhere between 30 and 50,000 points or mile welcome offers at the time, and people looked at those and just said, I don’t know how I’m ever gonna spend $8,000 because I just don’t spend that much in my daily life.
We’ve had a lot of inflation, so costs are a lot higher today, so it’s not quite as hard to spend that much money on if you know where to utilize these things in terms of your daily bills and expenses. Sometimes when it’s harder to do that, there are other and alternative ways to generate the spend. And it doesn’t mean that has to be money that’s net outta your pocket.
It means just that it’s coursing through your accounts out one way and coming back another [00:34:00] way. And I think some of the casino plays are opportunities to do that. I think you’ll be getting into some of those and how you accomplish some of that with the, some of the sessions and specifically into the master session where we’ll get into creative spend opportunities.
But I think people who have this will get to that our miles and points. People will also see the other side where they can have a little fun and do this, but they can. Then travel there for free. And conversely, the casino people who have no miles and points experience and are just looking for ways to get to these places for less can find ways to elevate their travel through the Miles and Points event here that are gonna be at the Zork Fest 2025.
And I think there are a couple of new things that are gonna be exciting for all of the attendees to come to, to create their own dream trip. If we’re [00:35:00] gonna get started Friday, and people always ask, when should I be there? Officially, Zor Fest starts at 5:00 PM on Friday evening with a cocktail reception meet and greet, but the registration actually opens at noon, and we’re gonna have a pre-session at 1:00 PM which I’ll be giving to anyone who wants to listen about all the terminology that you’re gonna need to know for.
Listening to the event and going through these sessions over the weekend and things that’ll help you kickstart your process into making your way into a more intermediate level topics without being left in the dark. And then we’re gonna have a casino loyalty program at two if you want to do. That’s gonna be a pre-session for, again, getting familiar with casino loyalty, what it can do, and all of that.
So you’re really wanting to get. Into what we’re going to be doing. That starts at 1:00 PM on Friday, December 5th, and then [00:36:00] after that, those are finished up at 3:00 PM We’re gonna have a couple of different labs, so there’s gonna be a miles and Points Labs sponsored by Rome that where they’re gonna show how to use the tool to do searches and set alerts.
We’re gonna have a Europe and Safari journey, so if you’re interested in. Building a trip to Europe or building a safari trip to Africa, we’re gonna have one of those. We have an Asia specialist who knows how to get families to four, six diff up to six people on, take on a trip to Asia. She’s well versed in that field.
We also have people who will be covering Disney and family travel as well as we have Rove travel, which is new in the award travel space. So. If they’re a new program, that’ll be interesting for many to learn about who have problems with getting credit cards. ’cause you can earn a transferable flexible currency without [00:37:00] getting a credit card.
And I’m excited about all of that. Of course, we have people who will be covering credit cards. We have a person who’s been to well over a hundred countries and can teach you all the ways that he travels in comfort and luxury to do and topping it off with you discussing how to do free cruises.
Justin Vacula: Yes. The comp cruises have been really interesting.
A good overlap between miles and points and credit cards is we’re using credit to get status that gives us cruises and then matching those to other programs. It’s been the year of cruising for me. I’ve gone on seven cruises. And I’m gonna take an eighth one in December. I’ve had so many offers that have been declining, especially the interior cabins as I’ve been cruising, ocean view and balcony.
So it’s a good problem to have. Too many cruise offers. Lots to look forward to. Yeah. And there’s also some social gaming events, and you mentioned the labs, the masterclasses, and there’ll be an opportunity for people [00:38:00] unfamiliar with gambling to learn video poker, to learn blackjack. Basic strategy is and how to play well and not just be sitting down not knowing what you’re doing.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah. That’s something that I need a refresher on because I was, I felt like I was pretty good at the last Zork best, and then I went and played while we were in Boston at the Win Boston Harbor, and I wasn’t doing so well. So I need to refresh on that. And again, where you pick up your strategy and. Build on the things that you know or think you can learn from experts who do this every single day and live in this space.
And I think it’ll be fun to have a live on the floor demonstration so that we have teachers who are gonna walk you through what to do when you’re stuck in these situations where you’re like, what do I do? Or How do I play? And I know that you’ll be amongst those teaching folks how to do some of this better.[00:39:00]
Justin Vacula: Yes. When I approach gambling, I’m looking at, I’m looking at gambling as a tool and typically finding an advantage through stacking multiple things. So maybe we’d be playing online blackjack, for instance, where I’m giving up about a half percent in the long run to the house, but I’m getting bonuses, I’m getting credit cards, spend in funding the gambling, playing through funds once and just withdrawing the money.
It’s a lot of interesting ways to find advantages. And then with video poker. Often promotions, giving bonus free play bonus credits towards status. And while you might be giving up a few percent in video poker, in most scenarios, you’re getting status and the benefits from that are quite valuable.
Joseph Petrovic: I think that when you talk about that and you talk about giving up the percentage, I think that that’s the same thing that we look at within the award travel and miles and points space, is that you have all of this opportunity and what’s it really going to cost you?
I look at how much miles and points are going to cost [00:40:00] me. If I can find ways to creatively spend much more than what I would actually be able to spend in my everyday life. I’m not a person who typically makes over six figures a year, but if I can spend six, seven figures a year through other methods, then I’m generating spend that will return something to me, not just in the form of an income, whether it’s through the form of a resale opportunity.
Whether it’s through any of these other techniques we’re going to discuss at so Best and I can generate millions of points. Now it opens up lots of options to be flexible with different travel alternatives.
Justin Vacula: A few years ago there was a certain brokerage app that was able to be funded with a credit card.
You were able to fund $5,000 opening this brokerage app. And many wouldn’t be as enthusiastic about that. If you had to say, put 5,000 in cash [00:41:00] and, oh, what’s the point of that? I’m just investing. I have other apps that I use, other programs that I use, but in this case, it was a very easy way for many people to reach a signup bonus that in just a few clicks signing up for this investing app, you’re able to fund it with credit.
No additional fees. And many people just kept the money in there for a few weeks, maybe a month, and just took the money out. Of course, this isn’t tax or financial advice, but it was a quick way for many to spend. I don’t see many opportunities like that today. They’re probably still out there. We might see some in the future, but this is just one thing that can be helpful.
Adding credit to your routine of what you do or taking on some new ideas can lead to some really good benefits.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, and I think one of the things that anybody attending needs to understand is we’re not advocating for you to outspend what your capability is. We’re advocating for the responsible use of that credit to be [00:42:00] able to spend in ways that you maybe hadn’t previously considered possible to do, and it’s effectively utilizing it in the mind of a business.
You have to think of it almost as if. You’re running a business and how can I minimize my costs? And if you’re looking at it from a travel perspective, if you can look at it and say, well, I can spend a million dollars, but I can only have $10,000 in expenses and 10,000 may sound like a lot of travel. You know a lot to travel, but maybe you don’t need to spend a million dollars to generate what you need to travel the way you want.
Maybe you need less than that and maybe it’s only a hundred thousand and now you can knock out a bunch of welcome offers very easily to do what you need to do. Once you start seeing the outsized proportions of what you can get, it just, it really changes the whole space. Like I said, I think I started getting interested in Japan.
I’ve [00:43:00] had. I dunno what, four, five first class flights that I’ve already taken on Japan Air Airways or Japan Airlines and May and I have eight more booked over the course of the next year for not only me, but also for my family. So it’s something I have three, three trips to Japan booked for the future.
For me personally, all of them are flying first class. These are flights that list price for. Their tickets are typically north of 10,000 and sometimes upwards of $20,000 per ticket. One way, even booked round trip, they’re still 22 to $25,000 for a round trip ticket. So it’s not something that I would ever be able to afford even one single ticket.
And I have eight of them booked for the future, and I’ve taken four or five of them already. So. That’s something that I think really can change up [00:44:00] your perspective quite quick.
Justin Vacula: A positive lifetime achievement award as people talk about a trip that’s once per lifetime, but I think we’re able to transcend that in a way to take these multiple trips in one lifetime.
Joseph Petrovic: Absolutely. Each and every trip I take is a trip of a lifetime for most people that they would never, ever be able to do. It’s just a, it’s a fascinating thing to be able to do these kind of things that are even on the more ordinary side. Just last weekend, or I guess I should say now, the weekend before last, ’cause we just got back from Chicago seminars, but the week before that I flew down to Atlanta with my daughter to go see her.
Her violin idol, she’s a violin player. She has some people that she follows on YouTube, a duo that is based in Singapore. They were doing a world tour and coming through the United States and we stopped down in Atlanta because my brother and sister-in-law [00:45:00] lived down that way as well. And we bought the nicer tickets where we got to do a meet and greet and she got to meet these folks and, but we flew down on points and we stayed on points, and we used suite upgrades and we had all this free breakfast and status that gave us a lot of extra.
Value for our stay. That didn’t really have to come out of our pockets per se, or at least in the way that most people would have to otherwise.
Justin Vacula: And maybe you got those tickets on StubHub with the Chase Sapphire Reserve?
Joseph Petrovic: I wish I did, but I did. Oh. Oh. What I did was able to do though it was City Early Access and City, you have a city card holder, oftentimes you can’t get tickets until a, or I’m sorry.
If you are a Citi card holder, you can get tickets earlier than those who are not city card holders. So they’ll have early access to some of the tickets like that. And we would’ve been able to get tickets otherwise for [00:46:00] that particular event, but we would not have been able to get the meet and greet ’cause that was sold out before it was offered to the general public.
Justin Vacula: Okay. So there was a credit card benefit that went into it after all.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah, they, there’s a lot of things that. We find that sometimes we don’t even know it. We just luck into it. I fortunately knew about it ahead of that, but there’s been a couple times where I found out, oh, if you’re a city cardholder, you can get access to these concert tickets before anyone else.
So maybe it’s a better seat. Maybe it’s a better cost. Maybe you don’t have to buy it on retail from someone, somebody who’s jacking up the price to a ridiculous amount, and there are opportunities out there.
Justin Vacula: I’m looking forward to Vegas. As we mentioned, Zork Fest will be in Las Vegas. I’m going to see Wizard of Oz at Sphere using Chase Sapphire Reserve benefit with StubHub.
I’m going to use the Chase Dining benefit to go to Vanderpump at Paris. I’m using the edit credit to stay at [00:47:00] Park MGM for a portion of it. I’m coming in before Zork Fest using Amex Fine hotels and resorts to stay at Fcon Blue. I’m pronouncing that correctly. I’m using a lot of MGM comps and rewards from MGM credit card spending, so there’s lots going on.
That points us to Vegas. Finding value in Vegas, continuing to be a great. Value destination if you’re prepared for it.
Joseph Petrovic: I think that’s a great tip for people is to realize that there are a lot of different credits and opportunities through all of these cards to use. If there was a tip I were to offer first time attendees is I go back and think about my first time.
It’s not to be afraid to socialize with each and every one of us. Go up and meet somebody. Make a friend. You never know when those friendships and those connections and those acquaintances are going to turn into something more and you’re going to learn a tip For the very first event I ever attended, you mentioned you’re speaking at FTU in [00:48:00] the Dallas area and I had attended FTU and I flew out all the way out to Seattle where I knew nobody.
I didn’t know anything. I sat down in between one of the events. I wasn’t even something that somebody was speaking on, and I met a gentleman from Australia. We haven’t kept in touch, but we were just talking about our experiences and he gave me a tip that was useful at the time. Of course that tip is dead today, but it was on how to obtain Marriot status and I’d never had hotel status before, but it was a way to shortcut my, your way to status and get there a lot quicker by booking hotel up event.
You could get 10 times Elite night credits by booking a hotel event, and there were hotel events in my local area that were as little as $60 per event. So now you are buying Elite Night credits for six bucks per night. That’s a tip that I would not have gotten had I not gone to that conference and wouldn’t have known about to [00:49:00] even think about.
Those are things that we just don’t think about in our everyday sphere of life. Kids work and school. That, you know, are explored in these types of events?
Justin Vacula: Yes, lots of opportunities to once again, reference Perry Purple Princess Perry on Instagram, as she says that about the T, the MBTA opportunities. So there will be a lot of those at Zor Fest.
These spontaneous conversations, these interactions, meeting some new people, seeing familiar faces, so very much looking forward to it. Very happy that it’s in Vegas. Once again, so we’ll have the Vegas experience in addition to the conference experience coming early, staying a little bit later, it’s gonna be a good time.
Definitely an opportunity to fast track learning. So for those that are more beginner, rather than just relying on online, if you get to go to an event in person, you’re learning a lot more at a higher speed, and then having the opportunity to ask questions, get answers to those questions [00:50:00] and more. So I think that’s a really good benefit.
And then for the more intermediate to advanced people. I think it’s the socializing and then maybe learning stuff outside of your focus.
Joseph Petrovic: That’s always been my thing, is how can I make connections so that if there’s something that I don’t know, and I think I’ve learned a lot throughout the years, I have a good base of knowledge for most of the stuff within the traditional miles and points in loyalty space.
On the casino side, it’s much a weaker thing. And I think the fact that I know someone like you or someone like Michael Traeger. I can always lean on those people, and that’s where my significant strength comes in is that I’ve always looked for the people who know something about the area that I want to know about and pick their brains for what I, what things are going to be able to help me, and then I’m open to those helping with the things that I know I can help others with too.
Justin Vacula: All right, great. We’ll wrap up and talk about how people can find you online. I know you were [00:51:00] recently on the award travel. 1 0 1 podcast as you were one of the main hosts of the show, but now you’re still a guest on the show occasionally, so I know people can listen to that podcast and find you there.
Joseph Petrovic: Yeah. I’m formerly known for running the award Travel 1 0 1 Facebook Community on Facebook, of course, and we have 118,000 members there that it’s a free group to join. You can just ask questions away and. Lean on the knowledge of the community for any help there. That’s where I still am for the most part.
You can find me at O Travel Dad on Instagram and X, and I don’t use that too often, so I’m not very active on either of those. But I’m also on the award travel one Oh, on podcast here and there, and we. I actually talked a bit with Angie this week, so that episode will probably be coming out shortly after yours.
Justin Vacula: Oh, travel dad. It’s OH Travel Dad.
Joseph Petrovic: [00:52:00] Oh, h, yes. Oh, travel Dad as in Ohio. Oh,
Justin Vacula: ah, oh. Travel Dad on Instagram and X. And we saw that in Chicago. It was the, oh, breakfast. It was like, oh. Oh. What a breakfast. Yep. Oh, interesting. You can find more information in the show notes and the transcript. All right. Anything else you’d like to share?
Joseph Petrovic: No, that’s it.
Justin Vacula: All right. Thanks for joining me on the show once again, and look forward to seeing you soon at Zork Fest a few weeks after Chicago.
Joseph Petrovic: Absolutely. I’m looking forward to it and I think, I think a lot of people will be very interested to learn all that you have to share. We’re excited to have you yet again for ZorkFest.
Justin Vacula: Thanks and thanks everyone for listening. Stay tuned for future episodes. For more content follow Hurdy Gurdy Travel podcast on Facebook and x. Follow Justin Vacula on Instagram. Subscribe to Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast on YouTube for daily content, [00:53:00] including travel videos, podcast clips and posts. Find more information including select episode transcripts at HurdyGurdyTravel.com.
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