In this episode of the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast, host Justin Vacula chats with James, host of the Churn and Burn Podcast, about maximizing travel using credit card points and miles. They discuss their origins in the points and miles hobby, favorite travels, spending strategies, and future card plans for 2025.
Justin also announces upcoming events and meetups, including ZorkFest 2025, and provides details on how listeners can support and follow the podcast. The episode offers valuable insights into leveraging credit card rewards for affordable travel.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Low-Cost Travel with Points and Miles
01:14 Announcements and Upcoming Events
03:02 Interview with James from Churn and Burn Podcast
04:41 Getting Started with Points and Miles
08:04 Navigating Annual Fees and Card Benefits
15:06 Advanced Strategies and Card Recommendations
19:01 Overcoming Objections and Misconceptions
27:10 Personality Traits and Experiences in the Hobby
31:52 Navigating Gift Card Purchases
34:21 Travel Tales: Best Trips with Points and Miles
36:23 Upcoming Travel Plans for 2025
42:11 Credit Card Strategies for 2025
46:13 Gambling and Manufactured Spend Insights
53:23 Closing Thoughts and Future Events
Show notes:
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Rough Transcript:
Theme Song: [00:00:00] Travel at low cost with points and miles. Credit card rewards bring the smiles. Many adventures, tales to be told. Make and save money, the world will unfold. Fight The war on happiness, pick up the gold. Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast breaks the mold.
Justin Vacula: You’re listening to the hurdy gurdy travel podcast. I’m your host Justin Vekula here to help you travel the world and next to no cost With credit card points miles benefits and rewards make money save money and take advantage of great deals Thanks for joining me for today’s episode Talking miles and points with the churn and burn podcast part 2 James host of the churn and burn podcast Invited me to speak on his [00:01:00] podcast and today’s episode is mostly me asking him questions We talk about getting started in miles and points, leveling up some of his favorite travels, spending goals, and new card plans for 2025.
Before today’s episode, some quick announcements. Early bird ticket sales for ZorkFest 2025, a miles, points, and gambling event, are now live at zorkfest. travelzork. com. I spoke at the successful ZorkFest 2024 event, and hope to see you at ZorkFest 2025 in Las Vegas. From December 5th through December 7th.
I’m also looking forward to other events in 2025 and had a successful 2024. Speaking at events with award travel, one on one frequent traveler university and both Chicago seminars events. If you’re an event organizer and would like to have me speak at your 2025 event, please contact me. Visit meetup. com slash Philly [00:02:00] miles and points to RSVP for monthly greater Philadelphia travel.
Credit miles and points meetups. I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. The next meetups are December 15th, 2024 and January 26th, 2025. Find a link in the show notes for more content between podcast episodes, follow Hurtigurdy travel podcast on Facebook and X formerly known as Twitter for bonus videos and community content.
Subscribe to Hurtigurdy travel podcast on YouTube. Follow Justin Vukula on Instagram for content, including trip photos. Search HerdyGerdyTravel on Subscribestar. com or become a channel member on YouTube to financially support my efforts starting at the 5 a month tip jar level. Receive special perks at higher subscriber levels including private one on one conversations and asking podcast guests your questions.
Find links and more including credit card referrals at HerdyGerdyTravel. [00:03:00] com. On with today’s episode. All right. Nice to chat again, James, welcome
James: back for part two. It’s nice to be here and I appreciate it, Justin. You let me come on. I know I mentioned this a little bit yesterday when we recorded our other crossover episode.
The main reason I started podcasting is because there were so few podcasts in this space that I felt like were enjoyable or coming from a place of authenticity. And I’ve been a big fan of your podcast for a while, because I always felt like you were one of the few people who really didn’t have any kind of, yeah, an agenda or something that we’re trying to sell or some sort of, you know how it is, there’s always an angle, right?
And I appreciate people who don’t seem like they’re working an angle. And I guess if, if there’s a, if there is one compliment I did want to [00:04:00] give before we started, like you definitely just seem like a genuine person when you do your show, it was a no brainer to come on.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, thanks, some monetization, I have some subscriber benefits, is, I remember when I started very early on, I was looking for some kind of mentorship opportunities, or some people to chat with who were in the game for a while, and I don’t think that’s out there too much, so I started some of that myself, adding.
Subscriber perks like private conversations and in person meetings over time.
James: Yeah, we’re like the Disney villains of podcasting. If you can’t do it, if you can’t get someone else to do it, do it yourself. And you’ve been in this how long? How did you get started? I feel like my start to this is fairly normative and I guess it started around 2015 or 2014.
Genuinely out of necessity because I really did not grow up doing a lot of travel and I don’t feel like I really even [00:05:00] fit the demographic of a points and miles person. I was with my girlfriend at the time, now wife, P2, and she had this dream that we were going to run a half marathon in every state. And as you can imagine, I will tell a quick story.
The first one that we did out of state was in Kentucky. And so we drove nine hours on the interstate to Louisville to run the Kentucky Derby half marathon. And we stayed in an Airbnb. It was one of those where you’re in somebody’s side bedroom and it was perfectly fine. We were still fresh out of college and both of us, we had these intermediary jobs.
And we thought it was, this was fine, right? I thought to myself, this is okay, but I can’t do this 49 more times. And the next thing I’m opening up a bunch of cards, [00:06:00] hitting a bunch of sign up bonuses and, and honeymoon to London. And yeah, that’s pretty much my origin story. And now look at us go, right? We were excited on our honeymoon to be upgraded to Delta Comfort Plus to London.
Justin Vacula: Oh, a little bit of a premium economy
James: experience. Yeah, I remember thinking that someone handing me a small pillow to recline back on for an overnight transatlantic was bougie. And now I’m just, I’m disappointed when I’m in business and not first class on an international itinerary. And that should tell you how spoiled you can get in this hobby.
Justin Vacula: And how do you find out about, oh, getting multiple cards, getting multiple sign up bonuses? Because I think that most people don’t see that as intuitive. As I was getting my haircut the other day, the stylist said, Oh, I don’t need many credit [00:07:00] cards. And I said, it’s not so much of a need, it’s a want, but the idea is to get more cards for more benefits, more bonus categories, and more options.
James: The signup bonuses as for the low hanging fruit, when you first get started, you don’t really know what you’re doing, but you know that points are good, and it’s, uh, almost an addiction or a good kind of drug where you hit a signup bonus and you see those points hit your account. And you get that little dopamine hit and you think to yourself, how can I get more?
And what if I got a business card and it’s gateway drug after gateway drug. And then you’re doing shenanigans, many, and yeah, I think that was pretty much where my mind was at. It was just, how can I get more signup bonuses quicker and without destroying my credit score, which I quickly realized. Was not an [00:08:00] issue.
Justin Vacula: The answer to everything is more critical. Right. And good. Some getting into the hobby, they might see annual fees. Some people are averse to annual fees when starting and the annual fees can range from somewhere around 95 or 99 up to maybe 600, 700. What do you have to say to people who might not want to participate in the hobby?
Oh, I only want no annual fee cards. Oh, I don’t know these annual fees. Seem expensive. What would you have to say about that?
James: This is a tough one, and, and I’m also curious what you might say to these people, but I’ve, I’ve had these conversations before and you have to be careful because your instinct is to say to them, this $395 annual fee.
Isn’t really a problem because it comes with this 300 travel credit. And then there’s this 90 TSA pre check credit and it goes on and on. But I think what they hear is it’s just a bunch of gotchas [00:09:00] and there’s a lot of confirmation bias on their side where they think to themselves, yeah, I knew it was too good to be true and, and now I know that I’m right and they dismiss it fairly quickly, but.
I don’t really have a good answer for that other than doing what I just stated, which I think can be fraught with a lot of unintended consequences. What do you think? Do you have a different approach other than just trying to explain it away?
Justin Vacula: Well, I tell them that you’re not locked into it for the rest of your life.
So you pay the annual fee in year one, but you get the big signup bonus, you get benefits usually. And then you could just make a decision in year two about whether you want to keep the card that with almost every issuer. That you have 30 days to determine whether you want to keep the card, and you could downgrade the card in many cases, you could just outright cancel, so you’re not locked into it.
So the first year is a huge win. Of course, America loves math, seeing the welcome bonus and the benefits for one [00:10:00] year, sometimes based on a calendar year, so you can get some of the benefits twice. I usually don’t recommend a high annual fee card to start. Usually, I’d recommend something like a 95 or 99 annual fee card to get them started.
James: This is such a 20th century problem because people will say, Oh, I’m not going to remember to cancel this and I would be that person to just keep paying the 99 fee for four years and forget about it. It’s 2024, you can go into your phone, which lives rent free in your pocket all day, create a calendar reminder 360 days into the future to cancel the card.
You have every tool at your disposal now, and I really don’t understand. The argument from the other side that, yeah, I agree. It’s not that big a deal.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. And I usually encourage people to look at their recent transactions at [00:11:00] least once a week, some people will do it maybe once a month or once every two weeks.
I do it once a week, just to make sure that all the charges are legitimate. And then I would see something like, oh, your membership renewal, your annual fee posted. So you don’t miss it. You don’t accidentally keep the card for another year or long, and then you have to get some sort of prorated annual fee.
James: Yeah. And the downgrade path is important. I have been guilty myself, probably more recently than I’d like to admit. Of forgetting that I could downgrade a card and just outright cancelling for no real reason.
Justin Vacula: And what are some of the good low annual fee cards that you found?
James: I think it’s the ones that have really good categories because you’re not really going to find a lot of benefits in those no annual fee cards like travel credits or TSA pre or any of those things that people tend to look for.
Stuff like the City Double Cash, the, I think there’s an Amex 2 percent [00:12:00] card, the Every Day, that is no annual fee. I like the Capital One Venture, because you get the 2x miles on all purchases. I’m a big proponent of telling the people in your life who, you know, are not going to carry four or five cards in their wallet to just use a 2 percent back card, because if you think about the average person that spends however many thousands of dollars a year, if it’s all 2 percent back, I think you can live with that, right?
Justin Vacula: Yeah. It’s not going to be too much of a difference when you’re just doing organic spending, everyday spending 2 percent versus 3 percent or 4%, but. Personally, I have little stickers on cards, or I would just know them from memory about what card bonus is what. So, it’s just like a game of Dungeons and Dragons, where, Okay, look, I’m gonna use this tool in this situation.
Oh, this is a plus four. Longsort at grocery stores. Okay. Makes sense.
James: We can compartmentalize [00:13:00] that and that’s how our minds are wired. And I, another card, the City Strata is a pretty solid, relatively low annual fee card, I think.
Justin Vacula: Yes. The City Strata Premier, I believe that’s a hundred dollars and 95. And I know the Capital One Venture card comes with a TSA pre check benefit.
James: Yeah. And I think probably both of those come with a no foreign transaction fee, which Everybody needs one of those cards, right? If you’re going to travel out of the country ever, I don’t know how you get around that. And so it’s just good to have.
Justin Vacula: And I like the World of Hyatt personal card with Chase for a 95 annual fee.
You’re getting a free night certificate upon renewal. You’re getting an entry point into Hyatt status. And if you spend 15, 000 on the card in a calendar year, then you get another free night
James: certificate. This is a side question, but have you experienced that a lot of people you run [00:14:00] into who maybe travel for business and If you know anybody who does this, they’re all married to a hotel program, right?
They’re either Hilton or Marriott, IHG or Hyatt. And I will beg and plead with them to please consider shifting their business from Marriott to Hyatt because the program is superior in every single way. And they just. They just will not see the light and I get it with the footprint, but surely you’re not going to too many places that don’t have at least like a Hyatt place.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, personally, if I find a Hyatt, generally I’m choosing that over the other properties because they’re harder to find. So it’s nice to have the Hyatt experience when possible and I also have the Hyatt globalist status. Thanks to the personal Hyatt card, the business Hyatt card, and lots of stays at Rio in Las Vegas that hopefully remains for 2025 at low rates.
James: Oh, yeah. The, the Vegas [00:15:00] Hyatt train continues to go round and round.
Justin Vacula: The winds continue. So some low annual fee cards, and then I think part of leveling up might be, okay, you realize that the hobby is real, that you’re actually using these benefits, the benefits are worthwhile. I also. Now, maybe I’ll consider a card with a 300 to 400 annual fee because I know travel is going to be coming up.
So it’s nice to get some of these travel reimbursements, the free check bags, global entry, maybe on some cards if you’re going international, coming back in the country.
James: Yeah, and I’ll skip the obvious ones like the Sapphire Reserve and I guess the gold card with Amex. And go with one that I think used to be an underdog card, but maybe now is a little more of an unsung hero among people, the Ritz Carlton card.
And if you don’t know, it’s not even available to get. With a signup, you [00:16:00] have to get a Marriott card with Chase and hold it for a year. And then you just direct message Chase and they’ll let you have it. One of the few cards left that actually pays you to have it.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. When you’re using the benefits, I think so for sure.
James: It’s, I say it’s the Hilton Aspire that didn’t get devalued, essential.
Justin Vacula: With the Hilton Aspire, you’re getting the automatic diamond status just for having the card. You’re getting the 400 Hilton Resort Credit. So that’s 200 twice a year. You’re getting an annual free night certificate on renewal of the card, and sometimes even when signing up with special offers.
For an annual fee of 550, that’s really good. Also, an airline incidental credit for 200 or 250 a calendar year. So definitely lots of benefits with that, but that’s for people that are going to be, of course, using the benefits and traveling. Maybe that card won’t be appropriate. For everyone, but on the low annual fee side, the [00:17:00] Hilton surpass is pretty nice now, I think 150 because they added some Hilton credits to it each quarter, but still a really good deal on that card.
James: I spoke to a customer, uh, service manager at, I won’t say the property, but I, I stayed at a Hilton property recently and they told me that they swiped 13 Aspire cards for a single guest. I was very impressed. 13 cards for a single guest, the Hilton gift cards? No, these were Aspire credits they were using.
Justin Vacula: Oh, the resort cards. Yeah,
James: and I thought the same because I know the gift cards with the, yeah, there’s a certain business card that can give you some, uh, 50 Hilton gift cards on another note. But no, I confirmed with them. They said 13 different Hilton Aspire cards they swiped for 200 credits. And I couldn’t believe it.
I had to do a double take on that one.
Justin Vacula: That’s interesting [00:18:00] because I have five personal American Express cards at this time. I have two Delta Business Reserves that I still have because I’m within a year of an upgrade offer from other Delta cards that I got with the No Lifetime Language offers. So I was able to get multiple sign up bonuses.
I have two Hilton Surpasses at the moment. I downgrade it and aspire to a Surpass and got another free night certificate. I talked about that in a previous video. Episode and the no annual fee Hilton card with American Express, because there was a special offer during the summer to get another signup bonus with that card.
So I’m very much in the no lifetime language and upgrading territory with American Express much later in the game here.
James: I’ve, I’ve come around on Hilton. I think the cards combined with the SLH stuff that they just added has really made it, I, I think it’s getting to be maybe even better than Marriott. I guess we’ll have to wait and see, but yeah, I’m a fan of it now [00:19:00] for sure.
Justin Vacula: And speaking of new people or people who hear about the hobby, I hear all kinds of objections from people. They say the most frequent one I get is it sounds like too much work or. I don’t have enough time or this sounds too complicated.
James: Yeah, and I may not be the best person to ask about this because the only really my P2 and I, my P3 being my mom.
Are the only people I’ve really gotten into this, but both of them have basically just let me take the reins, so to speak, right? That’s the point of being a player. And other than those two, I haven’t really gotten anybody to fully involve themselves beyond just maybe one or two cards a year, which I would not consider to be successful.
And it’s all the things you just [00:20:00] said. It’s the, I won’t be able to remember how to do that. And, uh, I just don’t have time. And I, I really am annoyed by the don’t have time excuse because think about all the time you spend on the couch, watching Netflix. I will go as far to set up a laptop on my treadmill.
And churn and burn the calories. I’ll see myself out. I actually am more curious to hear what you have to say about this, because I don’t feel like I’m a good representative for people who are curious about it. Clearly, whatever I’m doing, it’s not working.
Justin Vacula: I usually say that you could start with the lower hanging fruit and the easier wins.
I don’t expect everyone to do everything. I don’t expect people right out of the gate to get into things like gift card reselling or buyers clubs, things that might be. More time intensive and maybe the margins aren’t as high. But consider a brand new card and just shifting your regular spend that you’re [00:21:00] already doing over to a new card and hey, look, you got 80, 000, 100, 000 points, whatever the case might be, and well, aren’t you looking at traveling at least a handful of times per year?
Or for the people not traveling, maybe they could take a more cash back approach or a hybrid approach, as I know U. S. Bank has been giving out 750 sign up bonuses on their business cards, and even with Chase, getting a lot of ultimate rewards that could be cashed out if the travel is really absent for some people.
James: The business card thing is always a hard sell. People seem to think that You’re going to have somebody turn up at your house one day and tell you that your eBay or your, your, uh, gift card reselling business is not legitimate. And therefore all your cards are revoked and we’ll be hearing from our attorneys.
It’s, it’s just, it’s a dream. It’s a fantasy. And I, yeah, I don’t know who I’m really talking to [00:22:00] here, but I guess it’s just another point of contention for me.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, and even on the personal side, I could say, Oh, you could start on the personal side with Chase and you could consider getting a business. And most people I chat with have some business like activities or they already have some sort of business on the book.
But yeah, it’s, it’s very simple to create the LLC or some people want to take shortcuts and go the sole proprietor route. And I usually don’t recommend that because you run into roadblocks eventually when banks or businesses or different companies start asking for documents. Yeah, you’re right. If something like eBay, or babysitting, or dog walking, or some creative thing, some YouTube channel, podcast, that can count as a business.
Everybody has something, they just don’t know it yet. I appreciate when Miles and Points adds to the things that I was doing before the hobby. I mentioned Dungeons and Dragons, I go to gaming conferences, and in the past maybe I’d spend something like 100, 150 a night. At some hotels, or there are some people in [00:23:00] the hobby who talk about, I just drive home after the first day, and they’re driving an hour and a half, two hours to go back home and then getting up super early and driving back, and that sounds miserable, so if I could use points and just stay nearby and drive maybe five minutes or even being at the host hotel, that’s good, or I’ve chatted with some people who are baseball fans, and oh, now you’re able to use your Hyatt points and stay at the hotel near the baseball stadium, so that’s, I think, another motivating factor.
James: I’m pretty sure that some of the highest. Since per point records ever made have been for like, uh, college football and baseball hotels during really popular games, I’ve seen some insane, high at place numbers being hit, for sure.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, we’ve heard from people, oh, not enough time, too much work. But on the other side, you have people that are just really nuclear, let’s say, against.
The banks against credit cards. And I know on our last chat, you had that Dave Ramsey [00:24:00] impression.
James: But you say, Justin, we surveyed over 10, 000 millionaires, and I have to tell you that not a single one of those millionaires earned their millions using a credit card checkmate on that one.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, no, nobody in the hobby has ever said that miles and points got them rich, but they’re using miles and points During the process of building wealth and they’re using it to save money on their travels But of course Dave never says that and of course people like Elon people like Oprah many celebrities Many people who are wealthy definitely use credit cards, and I’m sure in most cases They also use those credit cards responsibly and pay it off But for the average consumer, just because I have a credit card in my pocket doesn’t mean that I’m just going to max everything out and go into debt and pay interest.
James: This hobby has completely changed my entire life [00:25:00] because I, in my day job, I am not a high income earner. I am one of those weirdos who does my job for like, love of the profession. And this hobby has allowed me to put my wife, my player two, in a position where She has run that half marathon in all 50 states and was able to do it in five or six years because when you can fly everywhere and do it whenever you need to do it to go to a race, it turns out you can actually achieve your goals without doing a.
A hundred road trips that take so many days off of work. And I, like I was able to take my parents to Scotland last summer and stay at a Waldorf and have first class plane tickets. And how many people can really say that? So for somebody to tell me that. This [00:26:00] hobby is a waste of time because it’s not going to make me rich, define rich.
I’m emotionally rich. Yeah.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. And is he going to rail against, he’ll never go to a golf course and play golf because golf isn’t going to make you rich. Is that, is that kind of, is he the follow up partner?
James: It’s absolutely ridiculous. And I, all I can say is I have a high quality of life now just because of this.
And I would challenge anybody to. Tell me that I’ve destroyed my financial future or whatever buzz phrase people want to use
Justin Vacula: and making and saving money through this, I imagine reduces a lot of stress and a lot of worry about, Oh, how am I going to pay this bill or that? Or, Oh, I think we can only afford this one vacation every few years where that’s not much of a concern for us is there’ll be maybe little incidental costs, but definitely the flights and the hotels.
And in many cases, the food also covered
James: yes, money and [00:27:00] miles can’t buy happiness, but they can buy Emirates first class. And I’ve never seen an unhappy person in Emirates
Justin Vacula: first class. And do you think there might be certain personality elements associated with the hobby? Maybe openness to experience con conscientiousness, something else.
James: I have a lot of theories on this. I think the demographic of personalities that. Get vaguely involved in points and miles. It tends to just be people who love travel and they’re looking for a means to an end. But I also have a theory about people like you and me who go whole hog to use the colloquialism into points and miles, and I think it’s people who tend to be.
Big into the gamification of things. It’s also a lot of attorneys, a lot of people who work in like the financial tech sector. People who [00:28:00] work in any profession that involves systems or something of that sort, nerdy people, right? Like you and me are clearly both nerdy. Oh
Justin Vacula: yeah, absolutely.
James: And so that’s, I do think that’s a cross section.
I don’t know. What do you think?
Justin Vacula: Yeah, high achieving for sure, creative thinkers, I think, where you understand, okay, here are the rules, here’s the system, so how can we use those rules to our advantage, and how could we creatively earn these points, and what are some shenanigans that we could participate in, and okay, we’re going to have to be a little bit awkward if we decide to level up and get into some gift card reselling or buying of prepaid cards.
That it is awkward to go into that store and bring 1, 500 worth of gift cards to customer service. And I know some people I’ve encouraged to do that. They said the first time they were really shaking, I said, just go in with one card. Just try to buy one prepaid card. Some of them were really anxious or nervous about it.
[00:29:00] And over time, they just let that drop. As they were more experienced, they had their first successful transaction. So you definitely have to be a bit controversial, I think, to do this and not be held back by it. Oh, the cashier is going to think I’m weird, or they’re going to suspect me of doing something wrong.
Or some people will feel that they’re doing something wrong. Oh, this isn’t normal. Oh, you’re not supposed
James: to do this. I have encountered so many people who I’ll explain something to them or try to tell them how to do something. And their gut reaction is that sounds incredibly sketchy. And I agree, it does sound incredibly sketchy.
And I think there’s a line in this hobby where. You have to know what is, where’s the line between sound sketchy and really is sketchy. And if you don’t know what that is, you’re you, I guess you could theoretically get yourself in trouble, but. I mean, of all the [00:30:00] people you and me both know and all the shenanigans, I don’t think I’ve ever really genuinely felt like I was doing anything wrong or, or was made to feel that way either.
So it, it really, I think it’s just a lot of pearl clutching at the end of the day.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, I’ve definitely had some interesting experiences with cashiers who make up the rules where I’ve gone to certain chain stores. And would have no problems, but then go to another one, and I’m getting odd looks, I’m getting all these questions.
And there were even some times where they said, Oh, I need to see your ID. And a cashier just took my ID and walked away with it. Like, what is going on there? She’s scanning this or taking a photo in some back room. What is going on? Or there was a story recently I shared in an episode where I was in New Jersey and a cashier or manager told me that I’m not able to buy gift cards in the state of New Jersey because I need a New Jersey driver’s [00:31:00] license in order to buy gift cards.
And I explained that I have a Pennsylvania driver’s license, and I’m unaware of any rule that you need a driver’s license in a state to buy gift cards in that state. And she claimed it was the corporate policy, and I don’t think that’s true at all. And I said, I have a passport here, isn’t this a valid form of identification?
And then she backed down to, Oh, we can only let you get a hundred dollars. Here’s my credit card. Here’s my ID. What’s the problem? And sometimes they’ll claim that you can use cash, but you just can’t use credit. Even though the store five minutes down the road, let me use credit of the same chain. So it’s like a lot of hundreds is okay, but a credit card with ID isn’t.
James: Yeah. Oh, CVS runs for the old one vanilla visas. I would constantly have haggling from the people at the desks that they were concerned for [00:32:00] me, who puts you up to this? Were they, are they telling you that your grandmother will pass away if you don’t buy 2, 000 worth of Visa gift cards? Like just, I’m trying to hit a signup bonus.
Just let me leave.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. And I’ll explain it to the cashiers. I’m here for this 10X points promotion. I’m here because I have this special offer in the cash app. With a debit card or, Oh, I get these grocery rewards or fuel points as a rebate. And I think they’re more open to the transaction at that point.
And then I’ve become quite a regular where some of the employees will see me and they’ll say, Oh, here for gift cards again. Yep. The gift card guy is here,
James: right? I’m always so jealous of anybody I know in this hobby. Who’s very well put together. Like the doctors and attorneys of the MS world because I’m in my thirties, but I feel like I still look like some sketchy kid.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, imagine like walking in with some three piece suit and like all this [00:33:00] going on. Oh, I’m here to buy some gift cards.
James: Right. You get a lot less pushback if
Justin Vacula: Yeah, I typically wear a Philadelphia Eagles jersey in this Philly area and the people think I’m a Philly fan So I guess I get to blend in but then if someone is talking about oh such and such a player this and that I don’t know What they’re talking about.
I usually point to the back of the jersey. I say, oh, this is more of a baby Yoda jersey than it is an Eagles jersey It was one of the sports book promos in New Jersey where you sign up and got 150 off a jersey So I got this custom jersey That says Baby Yoda on it, and people are usually a fan of that.
James: That’s pretty cool.
Justin Vacula: I, a lot of Eagles fans in my family, so they, they approve. Yeah, it’s become a poker nickname of sorts, and when GameStop used to be a big thing in our spaces where we’d get a lot of GameStop rewards and use certain happy cards to buy other gift cards, and before that it was even much better using GameStop gift cards to buy other gift cards.
I accumulate a lot of GameStop reward points [00:34:00] and I got a lot of Baby Yoda themed items. So I would take those around and people would remark on that. I just try to be the friendly credit card, gift card guy locally. And it probably ends up being a better experience for me too.
James: That’s something I’ve never heard before.
GameStop Rewards Program. I love it.
Justin Vacula: Oh, yeah, used to be awesome. Wow. All right. To move on, what do you think were some of your best trips in points and miles?
James: I guess I would encapsulate the 50 states thing I alluded to earlier and the, with the half marathons, because that was something that kind of went.
Over a span of five to six years. And I’d say at one point we were averaging almost one trip or race a month. And you can probably imagine there’s some highs and some lows across America. Some States that maybe I argued we should not be having to race in. [00:35:00] And then others, I wish we could have spent even more time in.
But more recently, I mentioned taking my parents to Scotland, Edinburgh. That was an amazing trip for both of them and bucket list thing for me to do with them. I was able to take my wife and her mom to Rome a couple years ago. And then we also went to Austria and Munich the just last summer. And I’ve, in my experience, it’s not even so much the trips.
It’s the people you get to share this with. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, but the first time you fly like a business class or something like that, there’s this special feeling you get of surreal, almost fantastical. I can’t believe it’s not butter, whatever buzzword you want to use. And taking someone with you, [00:36:00] who’s never experienced that is, is almost like seeing the world through the eyes of a child.
It’s awesome. And so I found that a lot of times it’s getting to share this with people, whether they are a player or not. Is really beautiful and it’s, it brings me a lot of joy. I don’t know. Yeah. Any trips coming for 2025? I guess there there’s a few and I’ll, I’ll just pick a couple. I am going to be going to Turks and Caicos for my spring break and.
I kind of impromptu booked this trip. I don’t know if you’re familiar, but obviously Hilton just added the SLH collection to their pool of hotels. And there’s this weird kind of luxury resort in Turks and Caicos that opened actually [00:37:00] only, uh, I think about a month ago. And it’s called South Bank, but there must have been some sort of inventory glitch or some kind of unintended room issued where they’re giving these three level villas that are over the water and they’re priced at, I don’t even know how much they’re like 3, 000 a night.
And you can book them with Hilton points. I think it’s 130, 000 a night or something. And I was like, Hey, there’s two bedrooms. These places are brand new, full kitchen. It’s just amazing. And so I booked five nights. I said, I’ll figure the rest out later. I’m just going to book this. And I think I’m actually, me and my P2 are going to probably bring my parents along.
And we got some Delta non stops from Atlanta. It’s only two and a half hours [00:38:00] from here, which is insane. And so we’re going to, I’m calling it the Dollar Store Maldives. That I’m really excited about that one. I’m also excited about a Tokyo trip next summer because we’re doing Singapore first class from LAX to Narita airport.
And then we’re going to do five nights at the Conrad and then, uh, another four nights at the Sheraton Tokyo Bay near Disneyland. Crazy story about the Sheratons. I booked a base room, right? Just four nights. And I’m messing around in the Marriott app and I see the reservation and it says, would you like to upgrade this room?
I think this is a newer thing. Marriott’s doing where some of the hotels they’ll proactively offer you a cash upgrade. And 90 percent of the time, I’m sure it’s just garbage, but I [00:39:00] click on it and they have the, uh, it’s, I guess it’s like the presidential suite, it’s this massive. 2, 000 square foot multi room suites, got multiple bathrooms, and they’re only wanting, it’s 120 bucks a night to upgrade.
And I, I did a double take, I couldn’t believe it. And I, I probably, I did the thing where you check everything four times and make sure that you’re not misreading and no, sure enough, I don’t know why they were offering this, but I clicked it and I just, I think it came out to 620 bucks or something for the whole shebang.
And now we’re in the presidential suite, apparently. And then the cherry on top, we’re flying back on the brand new a three 50 Japan airlines flight to Dallas, Fort Worth. And I have first class booked and P2 has business class, but I am determined to [00:40:00] upgrade her into this massive first class cabin. I’ve been told by people, it’s like the new leader in first class.
I don’t know. If that’s necessarily true, but I guess we’re going to find out. Yeah.
Justin Vacula: But Dave Ramsey said, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just use your own money to pay for travel rather than using miles and points.
James: Just in a real millionaire would buy that 10, 000 first class ticket on Japan airlines.
I’m not really sure why you’d want to go to Japan when you have everything here in America. You go figure that out, you dirty manufactured spender.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, or just maybe even for the family to go to Disney, how much money, like cash, would they have to be putting out for even the flight, the hotel, the food, that that can get to be pretty expensive.
It’s funny
James: you mentioned that. Yeah. I have a.
Justin Vacula: The U the U S using miles and points for the [00:41:00] flight and the hotel is definitely saving tons of money.
James: It’s crazy because I have a friend and she has two kids that are of Disney age. And basically they’re going to do four days or three or four days at Disney world and next year.
And the, when you add up the hotel and the flight and the park tickets for everybody, that’s basically going to be their vacation for the next two years. I couldn’t believe hearing that because I went to Disney world a couple of years ago and all we paid for was the park tickets. It’s jarring to hear that, like, how depressing, only once every two years to go on a vacation.
It’s, that’s rough.
Justin Vacula: Oh yes, we’re taking a lifetime of vacation and multiple lifetimes, perhaps.
James: Oh, you are for sure next year, miss for
Justin Vacula: eight
James: cruises, is that right? At least. At least. You got to get double digits. You got to get those numbers up, [00:42:00] Justin. Nine, nine would be so close. If you do ten, I think it deserves its own podcast with a power ranking.
Ooh. Yeah,
Justin Vacula: that could be a thing. The end of year cruiser review. Ooh. And how about new cards for 2025? So we’ve, we’ve seen a lot from American express with their points parade, additional user cards, employee cards, authorized user cards, expand your relationship cards. But do you have any brand new cards coming in 2025?
James: This is a really important question for a lot of people, because I think that the cards that we all saw ourselves getting six months ago are not going to be the cards we end up getting. There’s certain things going on with some AU offers, or should I say not currently going on as much. There’s maybe some certain expandable membership links that are not [00:43:00] being as generously sent out as they might have been a year ago.
And I’m finding the picture of what I’m going to be signing up for next year is rapidly changing by the day. I. I might actually do a zig instead of a zag here and say that I’m not going to be getting as many cards because I’m probably going to be focusing on doing more meaningful spend on the cards that I’ve got and maybe just doing some strategic product changes to get into some better cards for some categories.
If you’re going to hold me over the coals and demand that I sign up for a card, I think the Barclays AA V8 er cards are not long.
Justin Vacula: The AA advantage, A V 8 er. Yeah,
James: it’s however many AA mouthfuls they can fit into that ridiculous card. I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but it seems like they’re not [00:44:00] long for this world.
Justin Vacula: City is looking to have the exclusivity over the AA cards.
James: And so I, I would say if there’s anybody who does not already have those, might want to grab them and see what comes of it. I don’t know. Let me ask you this. I’m going to rephrase this question for you and then I’ll put it, I’m going to throw it back in your face.
Apologies in advance.
Justin Vacula: Ooh.
James: Are you concerned at all next year with trying to stay under 524, or are you going to crash through the 524 ceiling? Oh, I’ve already crashed
Justin Vacula: through. Yeah, once I had about seven or eight cards with Chase, they started to give me some issues about, Oh, we’re going to need to pull credit from a different card for you to open this one.
So I started proactively lowering credit limits. So I could have more theoretically available. And then they told me that, Oh, we just can’t approve you because we’ve extended the maximum credit we’re going to give you. And I explained, Oh no, wait, I lowered the credit [00:45:00] limit on another card for five or 6k a few weeks ago.
So shouldn’t we be good to open a new one? And I had to really fight. And eventually they opened another card for me for. A 5k credit limit. So at that point I was thinking, this is a lot of waiting. I’ve had the better chase cards that I wanted to get. So let’s get into other issuers. So I’ve definitely branched out.
I don’t see myself ever going under the chase 524 rule again, for listeners. If you’ve been approved for five or more cards appearing on personal credit in the last 24 months, in most cases, you’re not eligible for chase cards. So usually I’m recommending starting with chase and getting the chase cards early on and then branching out by their issuers.
James: And I was hovering below for the last couple of years because I was on the ink train for a little while, but of late, the ink train has not been too chewing as it used to. And I, yeah, I don’t know. It seems like they’re putting the [00:46:00] clamps on the tracks a bit. And I think I may be with you. I’m, I’m considering just throwing caution to the wind and going LOL 24, as they say.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. It’s looking like maybe the G bank credit card, which is something specifically for online gambling that you could use this credit card to fund online gambling sites. And you get a return on the purchase. No cash advance. And it’s also a 2 percent cash back everywhere. So that might have. A lot of utility on the many sites that I’m already using.
I’m looking at cards with Comenity or Bread Financial to use with Flooz. Floozing to the finish line, of course. A Synchrony PayPal personal card I’m looking at. And maybe something with Cardless and maybe something with Best Western as they have a new bank now, Mercury Financial, that’s servicing the Best Western hotel cards.
James: I think you’ve got the right idea. I think next year [00:47:00] is going to be the year of the Under the radar cards with these weird niche categories. And no, I really am serious. I think a lot of the big names that we have been reaping benefits from now for the last couple of years, it seems like They’re not, at least for the time being, so forthcoming with their parade of points.
Justin Vacula: Yes, and maybe I’ll be churning and burning as I have some cards like Discover It, PenFed, Pathfinder, that I can perhaps cancel these cards, sign up for them again to get another welcome offer. So we’ll see, but I’d like to get new cards first before I close cards and then try to open the same card again in the future.
Because I might end up in a spot where I cancel a card and then I try reapplying and they don’t give me it and oh, wait, could we turn back time? I canceled this thing two months ago. That might not work out. So we’re getting creative here in the end game of things. And of [00:48:00] course, waiting for new cards from issuers, perhaps some banks that we haven’t opened any cards with.
That would be nice because I think in this end game position, it’s going to be hard for me to get anything with U. S. Bank, Barclays, and Capital One because I just have too much credit activity. And they don’t seem to like that. So we’ll have to do some calculations because of course, America loves math.
If I could use that G bank credit card to fund gambling sites, and I’m getting 1 percent back, but giving up a half percent in blackjack. It’s a positive expected value loan of maybe 10, 000 whatever credit limit they give me, that I can use that money in the 30 plus days to make some more money. So it seems like a little bit of a marginal play, but some extra money to play around with.
And there are certain times where these sites will offer you deposit bonuses if you were to deposit a higher amount that you traditionally couldn’t do if you were to use prepaid cards. So this could be another utility to attack some of those bonuses.
James: [00:49:00] I’ll throw in a little bonus here and you can think about it while I’m answering my own question.
Is there a card you wish would be introduced next year that would be an instant sign up for you? And mine is going to be a premium high annual fee. World of Hyatt card.
Justin Vacula: Ooh, yeah, that’d be cool. I, I don’t think there’s much in terms of rental car credit cards. And I’ve heard a lot of questions about that.
Why doesn’t enterprise, why doesn’t Avis have a credit card that could be meaningful for rental cars? That a lot of people, of course, especially with more traditional jobs, they’re renting a lot, they’re flying around, that could be something nice. And I could look into doing that because I usually don’t get rental cars and I don’t have many cards that can offset.
Rentals. So that’d be interesting. I’d also like to see a premium Caesar’s credit card. If they were to have some sort of annual fee and you would get meaningful benefits and you would get tier on all of your [00:50:00] spend similar to the MGM credit card, I would definitely spend my way to seven stars status with Caesars.
Lots of, I should
James: have expected one of your, one of your
Justin Vacula: desired
James: cards to be something gambling related.
Justin Vacula: The, the credit card wishlist. And then the future of course, of just being able to use credit at the poker table and get chips. With no fee, that’d be tremendous as well. So if any casinos want to do that, that we could just buy in right at the table, like we can do on cruise ships, that would
James: be amazing.
If anything, you have inspired me to look a little deeper into the world of gambling, manufactured spend arbitrage. That’s. That is something that I said this on our last episode, total blind spot for me, but it sounds like there is plenty of hay to be made. Yes.
Justin Vacula: And we’re in it for the long game as there are some ups and downs with gambling.
But if you’re trusting the math and the process and doing the right things, it works out in the long run. Some ups and downs, but overall [00:51:00] a big win. And that’s what 2024 has been. Shaping up to be as
James: we come to a close, I actually would say my biggest year, the last two years, actually, I think I’ve done better than I have since I started.
And I’m hoping that continues next year. I think we are
Justin Vacula: just leveling up. Yes. I still have the first world problem of too many grocery rewards. I still have my freezer full of frozen vegetables and many grocery items throughout podcast guest Heidi. She has these extra shelves that she installed in her basement.
She has some extra freezers. So lots and lots of extra food because the grocery programs have been really great. I’d also like to pay Giant in Pennsylvania to have points not expire, as Acme and I suppose Safeway and other parts of that chain have introduced a program called Fresh Pass where you can pay, it’s now 50 a year with the Black Friday, Cy [00:52:00] Fall, Cyber Monday, whatever promotion.
Where you can pay 50 a year to have no expiring points. And every month you get a 5 store credit and you get some other perks too. So that’d be cool to pay giant and not have the grocery rewards expire or the fuel points expire.
James: These are all alien names to me as a dirty Southerner. We only know Publix, Kroger, and really that’s just about it I guess.
Where Publix used to be a big money order. Destination, not anymore. Now it’s pretty much just the Kroger show down in the South.
Justin Vacula: You get a lot of the fuel rewards and I know many of those gift card deals can be really, for sure.
James: Yeah.
Justin Vacula: Yep. Mandy, who was a past podcast guest at a lot of Kroger, she was throughout the United States with her traveling nurse job or nurse practitioner job.
So she was able to go to these different stores, part of the same chain. Throughout the U. S. and put a lot of [00:53:00] spend on her MGM MasterCard and she now has the MGM Gold status and I hope Platinum for 2025 as that’s my goal too. Extra credit, high score. I miss
James: the Hyatt to MGM match, uh, match a cell or matching cura cell, whatever you
Justin Vacula: Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
James: That was a good time.
Justin Vacula: Any closing thoughts,
James: I would just say going back to the, I don’t know if there’s anybody listening to this per se, that’s on the fence about rewards, points, miles, I guess I would say to people who are just casually into this. Maybe there’s a few people listening who are in that first group of people who just do signup bonuses and not much else because they don’t really know where else to go to.
My advice would be to network as much as you can, go to the meetups, listen to the podcasts, meet people. And before you [00:54:00] know it, I think you’ll find that people in this space. Are all exceedingly nice and generous. I continue to say on my pod. Every person I talk to, and you’re certainly no exception, they want to help people, right?
It’s, it’s one of the friendliest hobbies I’ve ever been in. And, yeah, just don’t give up, keep, keep digging and, and you will find. Points and miles gold.
Justin Vacula: Ooh, just like the outro song.
James: There you go. Yeah, I’m tying it all back in. Yeah.
Justin Vacula: There you go. And where can people find you online? How do they find your podcast?
It
James: is churn and burn podcast. You can find me on Spotify. I’m also on Apple Podcasts. I have an Instagram where I occasionally will do some like Reviews of first and business class flights and nicer hotels that [00:55:00] I’ve booked with points. It’s also, I think the Instagram handle is churn and burn podcast, churn and burn podcast for right now.
Instagram seems to be the way that I am delivering content. I also do have a YouTube channel. I think it’s also called churn and burn podcast, but. I’ve carried over most of my video content to the Instagram. So that’s it. Sorry, guys. I hate the internet. Yeah. I’m not a
Justin Vacula: good nerd, obviously. All right. Thanks for coming on the kind words and your time.
Thanks for listening and stay tuned for future episodes, Zork Fest, 2025. A miles points and gambling event are now live at zorkfest. travelzork. com. I spoke at the successful ZorkFest 2024 event and hope to see you at ZorkFest 2025 in Las Vegas from December [00:56:00] 5th through December 7th. I’m also looking forward to other events in 2025 and had a successful 2024 speaking at events with Award Travel 101, Frequent Traveler University, and both Chicago Seminars events.
If you’re an event organizer and would like to have me speak at your 2025 event, please contact me. Visit meetup. com slash philly miles and points to RSVP for monthly greater Philadelphia travel. Credit miles and points meetups I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. The next meetups are December 15th, 2024 and January 26th, 2025.
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