Join host Justin Vacula on the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast as he shares tips on low-cost travel using points, miles, benefits, and rewards from credit cards.
This episode features an insightful interview with James from the Churn and Burn podcast discussing Dell credits, the business platinum card, and creative ways to maximize credit card rewards.
Justin also announces various travel events for 2025, including ZorkFest and Greater Philadelphia Travel: Credit, Miles, and Points meetups. Learn about personal use of Dell rewards and leveraging buyers’ clubs for good returns. Discover how a miles and points lifestyle can change perspectives and lead to a fulfilling, flexible life. Stay tuned for part two of this collaboration.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Low-Cost Travel with Points and Miles
01:23 Special Announcements and Upcoming Events
03:16 Welcome by the Churn and Burn Podcast
04:44 Justin’s Journey into Points and Miles
06:03 Gambling and Casino Promotions
12:55 Dell Credits and Personal Use Items
28:26 Introduction to Buyer’s Clubs
30:36 Maximizing Dell Credits
34:32 Exploring American Express No Lifetime Language Offers
36:53 Upcoming Travel Plans
40:45 Cruise Lifestyle and Casino Offers
47:30 Philosophical Reflections on Value
53:21 Conclusion and Future Events
Show notes:
Greater Philadelphia Travel: Credit, Miles, and Points Meetup—Join me for monthly in-person events in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania.
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Rough Transcript:
[00:00:00] Travel at low cost with points and miles. Credit card rewards bring the smiles. Many adventures, tales to be told. Make and save money, the world will unfold.
Fight the war on happiness. Pick up the gold. Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast breaks the mold.
You’re listening to the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast. I’m your host, Justin Vacula, here to help you travel the world and next to no cost with credit card points, miles, benefits, and rewards. Make money, save money, and take advantage of great deals.
Thanks for joining me for today’s episode, talking miles and points with the Churn and Burn podcast, part one. James, host of the Churn and Burn podcast, invited me to speak on his [00:01:00] show to talk about my experiences in the miles and points hobby, using Dell credits approaching the end of 2024 and upcoming travel.
For this part one episode, James interviews me, so this is a rare episode where someone asks me many, many questions. He and I will release audios of our conversation, switching the interviewing role. Stay tuned for part two. Before today’s episode, some quick announcements. Early bird ticket sales for Zorkfest 2025, a miles points and gambling event, are now live at Zorkfest.
travelzork. com. I spoke at the successful ZorkFest 2024 event and hope to see you at ZorkFest 2025 in Las Vegas from December 5th through December 7th. I’m also looking forward to other events in 2025 and had a successful 2024 speaking at events with Award Travel 101, Frequent Traveler University, and both Chicago [00:02:00] Seminars events.
If you’re an event organizer and would like to hear me speak at your 2025 event, please contact me. Visit meetup. com slash Philly miles and points to RSVP for monthly greater Philadelphia travel credit miles and points meetups I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. The next meetups are December 15th, 2024 in January 26th, 2025.
Find a link in the show notes for more content between podcast episodes. Follow Herdy Gerdy Travel Podcast on Facebook and X, formerly known as Twitter. For bonus videos and community content, subscribe to Herdy Gerdy Travel Podcast on YouTube. Follow Justin Vukula on Instagram for content including trip photos.
Search Herdy Gerdy Travel on Subscribestar. com or become a channel member on YouTube to financially support my efforts, starting at the 5 a month tip jar level. Receive [00:03:00] special perks at higher subscriber levels. including private one on one conversations and asking podcast guests your questions. Find links and more including credit card referrals at Her gerdy travel.com on with today’s episode.
Alright, everybody, welcome to the Churn and Burn podcast. Or is it the Hery Gerdy Travel Podcast? Which is it gonna be, I don’t know. What do you think? I guess you guys have already figured out, hopefully, who my guest is. Justin, how are you doing?
Thank you for inviting me for the double podcast, a release on my side and a release on your side, and we’ll flip it for a future recording and I’ll interview
you.
Yeah, we’re going tit for tat on episodes and we basically, for anybody who doesn’t know, we, me and Justin vaguely knew about each other. And started talking and realized that [00:04:00] we definitely wanted to do an episode together. And I think maybe during the course of our conversation we realized we, we had too much for one episode so we decided to do a flip flop.
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Nice to collaborate and do an exchange of being on your show rather than having an episode on my side.
And for today’s episode, we’re going to be getting into some Dell specific stuff with Amex business Platinums. But before we get into all of that, Justin, I wanted to ask you a few things, cause I’ve been a big fan of your podcast for a while, but I feel like I don’t really know you very well.
For people who don’t know you and me. How did you get into the Points and Miles game?
I’ve always liked games and gaming throughout my life. I remember having Super Nintendo as early as I was around 5 or 6 years old, getting into trading card games, Dungeons and [00:05:00] Dragons, much more later finding gambling, as I had a local casino promotion in northeastern PA.
Where you could buy these certificates or coupons, that you would spend usually 50 to get this coupon. You would get 50 in food and 50 in free play, was the usual deal. I saw this one day in a local newspaper. These are things at the time, heh, papers. And figured, that sounds interesting. If I can get 50 in casino play and get 50 in food, maybe there is a way to break even on this and use the city double cash and get 2 percent back.
I thought this was a really great card at the time. I wasn’t informed of all the welcome offers and the shenanigans that we’re doing today with many credit cards, but I was able to run this promotion pretty well. I learned how to play Jaxxer better video poker and play the money through. Expecting a slight loss in the long run, but getting a lot of casino food.
So I had a stable of about 10 or 15 people I would meet at the casino, and I would tell them, I’ll [00:06:00] bankroll you, we’ll split the food, it’ll all be good. So finding that promo Getting into video poker, later getting into Texas Hold’em and playing online initially. I really liked the game and the incentive to make money through playing a game.
So after playing online, moving up in stakes, studying, listening to podcasts, reading, and much more, I eventually transitioned to casino play. And continuing to listen through many podcasts, I found the podcast Gambling with an Edge. And they had a guest who mentioned Doctor of Credit and, oh look, you can get this bank account with PNC and you could get this Capital One Saver card at the time that you could use to fund the PNC bank account.
So you would get progress towards hitting the signup bonus and you would also get the bank account bonus connecting a direct deposit. So once I had success with PNC and the Capital One Saver card at the time, I looked into Doctor of Credit and that was 2018. We’re now in December of [00:07:00] 2024. And very much deep down the rabbit hole.
It’s funny to hear your story involving all the gambling arbitrage, because most people on here, they give me a story like I was reading the points guy and I decided to open a Chase Sapphire Reserve and the rest is history, but that’s a really unique angle. What percentage over the last few years of your shenanigans, shall we say, would you say touches in the casino gambling space?
What percentage of your earnings? comes from that side, do you think?
Oh, that’s a really good question. I still play poker today. I’m normally playing poker by night and doing miles and points stuff during the day in the afternoon, so typically I’m playing poker from around 5 o’clock until 9. Or sometimes later, if the game is really good, I’m usually playing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
And sometimes different days, sometimes Sundays. If I’m traveling, I’m in Vegas, I’m in Atlantic City. I’ll [00:08:00] usually play when I’m there, even if it’s the earlier days. In the week, so I’m still playing poker, and I’ve aimed to find lots of overlaps between casinos, loyalty programs, to get statuses, like spending my way to MGM Platinum status.
I did all the tier matching for years now, going from Caesar’s Rewards matching to other programs, and I’ve been playing lots and lots of online blackjack in Pennsylvania, and some in New Jersey, which has been a really tremendous opportunity, linking a lot of miles and points. Using credit cards to buy gaming gift cards and prepaid cards and using those with the online blackjack sites to have an edge in a very creative way.
That’s so crazy.
And this is one of the reasons I was so interested to have you on is I really know nothing about the gambling side of the MS world and you do like events and stuff, right, Justin, you’re, you’re bookable [00:09:00] for people’s conferences and you seem very active, like in the community, right?
Yeah, thanks.
I had a really good 2024. I spoke at an event in San Antonio with award travel 101. I went to frequent traveler university event in DC and spoke there both Chicago seminars events and Zork Fest, which is a miles points and gambling event in Las Vegas. That’s also going to be occurring in 2025 in December.
So I’ve been speaking at many events. I’ve been hosting a monthly meetup called greater Philadelphia travel credit miles and points. That meets inside of a giant grocery store in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. We get a private room. We get to use our grocery dollars for Chinese food. It’s really great.
I’m going to have to come out of one of these.
This sounds like a good time.
Ooh, yes. Super Hong Kong chef is the name of the restaurant.
No way.
Yeah. The old menu on the menu, it said in big letters in giant. And we joked about that being the name of the restaurant, [00:10:00] but they got rid of that. Now it’s inside giant. Oh, wow.
My, my brother in law lives in Hong Kong, so I’m going to have to see if the food is up to par.
Yeah, it’s really deceptive. Many people, Oh, it’s just grocery store Chinese food. Oh, it can’t be that good. Oh, it’s food that’s been sitting there, but they have a full menu and you order off the menu. They make it fresh for you. So typically what I’ll do is I’ll walk inside the store, place my order, go grab some gift cards or maybe money orders and then come back and the food is usually ready.
That’s great. I wish I don’t, I’m not aware of any meetup groups around Atlanta. You guys up in the Northeast. Are very organized and clearly the Southerners are not with the times. So we got to get Atlanta people of Chernobyl. We got to get with that.
Yeah. And the community is really nice as we usually have about five to 10 people and meet up, which is funny.
Sometimes we hear I couldn’t make the meetup because I’m on an African safari or I’m going to the UK. So I’ve been calling it the travel hackers dilemma that when you travel places, you’re [00:11:00] leaving some things behind. And I joke about first world problems like, Oh, too many trips. I can’t make all the commitments.
Yeah, a hundred percent, and it’s part of the reason I’m an educator is I get some time off, but speaking of events, I may be speaking at a travel points meetup next year, but I’m just going to tease with that. I’m not going to say anything else about it. And it may actually, I don’t know if you’re going to be in attendance, but it, it happens to be.
Just north of you, I believe, and just in February, I want to say, is the, the week, the, the month that they’re shooting for.
Yeah, it might be the Travel Hacker’s Dilemma myself as I have some cruises in Las Vegas for early next year.
Oh, right. That’s, uh, probably a Trip Report podcast if you want to invite yourself back on in the future.
Yeah, absolutely, and now I bought a travel microphone, so I hope that’s going to [00:12:00] work so I can record when I’m on the go, because typically, with lots of travel, I’d wait until I go home and record, but now, I’m going to use this travel microphone and this AI program that we were talking about called Descript That’s really help improve audio quality, so I’ll have quality content on the go is at home I have this really expensive Dell microphone that I use Dell credits for And it was just a microphone there.
There were no cords with it. Nothing. Oh you have to buy this boom arm You have to buy these cables you have to buy an audio interface and this cloud a lifter accessories I sound really good, but it was definitely exhausting a lot of Amazon credits Amazon gift cards and Dell credits previous microphone Oh, here’s a cord that you could just connect and put it in the slot and you’re good to go.
But this was a very complicated item.
It sounds, you sound pretty good on my end. So we’re going to say it was all worth it. And all the credits were spent. Thank
you American Express for all your Dell.
So speaking of Dell credits, not to bury the lead, [00:13:00] we decided for our end of the churn and burn side. I guess we’re going to call this.
We know that it is the season and by that late in the year or maybe early next year, some of you out there who have a certain silver card with a very high annual fee are probably either rushing to expend your credit, your 200 credit. Or you are going to be rushing to spend the new ones on the new year and we decided that we would attack this from both sides.
I am gonna attack the side of I have these credits and I would like to spend them on things that are on Dell. com for myself to use in my real life. And Justin is going to attack this from the side of how can I turn this into useful funds to go back in my [00:14:00] pocket? What do you want to go first? I think with the more useful play perhaps.
I think first I looked for personal use items with these Dell credits, because if we’re to flip items, if we’re to resell items, generally there’s a slight loss on it, unless there are some times where we could use certain portals that give a payout, or there’s an American Express offer that gives maybe 10 percent back or some percentage, so if you’re to resell, usually there’s a slight loss on it, but it’s, if you have a 200 credit and you could get back like 180 ish on it, I think that’s an okay exchange.
Originally, I started getting items for personal use from Dell. So I have a nice three monitor set up here. I think that’s made my workspace more efficient rather than just relying on one monitor. So usually Dell monitors are under 200 or if you’d like a bigger and better monitor, they have the ability to split tender where you can use multiple [00:15:00] expensive silver cards at checkout and Use those 200 credits multiple times in the same transaction.
So you could potentially get a 400 monitor, 600 monitor, or maybe even more, depending on how many of those cards that you have through the generosity of the certain no lifetime language offers. So the monitors I think are a good play. I mentioned the microphone for other content creators. I think better audio quality is a nice thing as the audience has a better listening experience, you come across clearer, and I also got a smartwatch through them.
I’m not sure if the smartwatch Is still in there, but this is a galaxy five smartwatch, I believe. And I think this was a good feeling update because the old smartwatch I had was bulky and I’d have to take it off at times because it just felt like being on my wrist for several hours. It would get a little bit tiring.
But I’ve had this [00:16:00] watch on for about a week now, and there were times where I think, oh, is this watch still on? And I’m like checking to see that it’s still on because it’s such a smooth feel. And of course, more features with the smartwatch as well. So it’s been a pretty good experience with that. So I think we could aim for some personal use items first.
And then look to maybe flip the credits at usually a slight loss or exchange.
I also purchased the Galaxy Watch as a fellow Android degenerate. That’s good to know. You’re maybe the first person I’ve had on the pod that’s not an iPhone, iPhone person. I
did order a certain iPhone from Straight Talk Wireless, as there have been a few times that come up where Apple Pay could be useful for all of our shenanigans.
So I’m finally getting a phone with Apple Pay functionality, as I might be able to use that for some plays going forward. And even I see some Amex offers, as use Google, use Apple [00:17:00] Pay, maybe three times, get 10 or 15 cash back, or maybe Even better. So even those small wins there, I think can make sense. And of course it grows my phone army as that was inevitable to have even more phones for all these fun things and making and saving money
as I sit at my desk, looking at my cage
of five random burner phones charging.
Nice. And hopefully auto spinning to win with the glorious my Vegas games.
Oh no, they’re doing many nefarious things, but I’m gonna have to get you to tell me about autospin later. Oh,
I do. I I did reload a remastered audio That’s explaining the whole process, going to Borgata, going to MGM National Harbor, going to Las Vegas, and playing these free to play games to get free play, free hotel nights, comped cruises, food credits, and much more.
It’s been really fantastic, as I think the makers of the game want you to make these [00:18:00] microtransactions. But as we know from the classic South Park episode, freemium isn’t free. But you could choose to not make the in game purchases and just play for free and rack up the points. So it’s very doable, especially with multiple devices.
It’s pretty easy, actually. This
is, we’re really dropping a lot of little nuggets for people to pick up breadcrumbs. This is probably going to be our most, one of my most listened for sure, that we’re not just bragging about Ritz Carlton. Ooh. So, uh, yeah, as Justin said, you can split Tinder with these. And I think you also alluded to Trying to stack the cash back portals and for anybody who doesn’t know before we dive into some personal items You can do Rakuten or Capital One shopping Whatever fill in the blank with your favorite cash back portal sometimes gets up to 15 percent With Rakuten which at that point you’re earning 30 back on a [00:19:00] 200 credit or more if you transfer to Amex membership rewards, right?
Yeah Amex And Rakuten can link, so if you’re using membership rewards at more of a value than one cent per point, that’s probably the way to go. Or, even if you have a business checking account and a business platinum card, you could just cash out the points for one cent per point for those who may be over pointsed or they don’t travel as much and they’re going for more of a cash back approach or even a hybrid
approach.
I’ve never heard somebody say overpointsed before, but somehow I feel like I’ve been overpointsed quite a few times. Better than underpointsed. Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve selected five Dell items to quickly review, and I was very disappointed going through my order history, realizing how many of the things I’ve ordered that are no longer on Dell, like some Sony earbuds and [00:20:00] things, but these are items that are all on Dell right now.
A lot of them are on sale and I’m going to go cheapest to highest because one of these is going to drain a whopping three biz platinum credits in one go. But, uh, the, the first one I have here. Is an APC backup, 600 volts, uninterrupted power supply. Are you familiar with this device, Justin? Oh no, go into it.
So it’s 80. And the idea with these is if you ever have like power issues in your domicile, where you are working on an important thing on your computer, or really anything that runs on electricity, This thing will keep your device on for several minutes, long enough for you to save those important documents.
Perhaps that podcast episode you’re working on [00:21:00] you can finish. Doing what you’re doing. The only thing I would caution against is I found that this would not actually power my personal desktop computer. And I think that might have something to do with the fact that it’s running like a 4090 graphics card and eight mechanical hard drives.
But for 90 percent of people, it should power all your stuff long enough for you to not lose any data or information. Yeah, outside the box pick there. A lot of people don’t even know this stuff exists, and it’s just 80 bucks.
Yes, we learn new things in Miles and Points. All these obscure items, all the ins and outs of banks and what checks systems and SageStream are or maybe aren’t.
Check systems has burned me more than a few times. Yeah, not to be confused with the cereal, Chex, this is Chex [00:22:00] Systems. Spelled the same way though, oddly. Ooh. The second item is actually my favorite item on this list. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing this right. It’s A R O Z I. A R O Z I. Arena Gaming Desk.
For 260, and I am sitting at this desk as we speak, and the, I know what you’re thinking, okay, a gaming desk, it, I don’t know why they would call this a gaming desk, but the trick is. It is a sit stand desk with a motorized component. Have you ever seen these on Dell? Oh no, that’s something different to me.
It’s, I was very skeptical, cause I thought, how good could it be for 260? It’s incredibly good. The legs are made of actual metal. It’s great. It’s my favorite thing I’ve ever gotten from Dell. I can, right now I have it in sit mode. It’s very large. I can put it up to stand if I want. [00:23:00] And yeah, highly recommend this for anybody who
needs a sit stand desk.
Maybe some laptops for personal use as well as the Inspiron laptops seem to be discounted a lot. I think in miles and points it’s mandatory to have a laptop on the go as mobile phone functionality could be pretty limited especially. When dealing with spreadsheets or you’d be a lot more inefficient. So having a decent laptop on the go, I think is a good case for the personal use of the credits.
I feel like everybody’s first venture into using these is they get something that’s actually like sensible, like a laptop or a monitor. And then as you get more and more desperate throughout the year, you have to resort to some of these shenanigans and. Uninterrupted power supplies,
I think to a mobile charging block.
Is also very good. It worries me a bit when I see people, especially at the poker tables, they have a 5%, 10 percent [00:24:00] power on their phone. And usually the tables have charging ports, but they don’t always work. I always have a charging brick on me that I can just plug a cord into, put it in the phone and be good to go for power on the go.
Personally, I’ll never let my phone go that low. That’s just wild. If I’m on the go, it’s not going to get lower than 50. I’ll bring out the charging block or the power supply or whatever the more official name would be for it.
They do still have a lot of those, even though they’ve seemingly gotten rid of so many things.
I’ve noticed charging blocks are in plentiful supply on Dell. com. I think it’s Anker, A N K E R, or Anker. Yeah, those are really great. Good headphones too, shockingly. The third one here is probably the most mainstream of these. I tried to choose things that are a little off the wall, like stuff you might not know about.
But this is just a straight up Dell 27 inch 4K monitor. 250. I’m looking at two of these [00:25:00] right now. And honestly, it’s, I think it’s one of the best cost to benefit ratioed monitors they have. You can get a couple of them and pretty much drain three credits if you got three to use. And they’re solid. Have you bought any monitors from Dell?
Yes. I mentioned I have the monitor setup. So I’m using three monitors at the moment. So it’s nice to just have that and be able to just drag things into different windows. It’s much more efficient at home and yeah, saving the time on things and having a little bit of a better quality of life. It’s nice.
Triple monitors is impressive. That is. I’m getting the, it’s like the Wall Street guy that’s scrolling all the stocks on the quad monitor.
Yeah, here’s Blackjack, here’s a spreadsheet, here’s the basic strategy chart. The My Vegas games are also going in the background. It’s really nice, rather than having everything jumbled on one screen and in the [00:26:00] background.
Yeah, absolutely. The, the, I’m going to get, save the most expensive for last cause, and I’m going to go back a little bit to the one thing on this list that I would actively avoid. And it is the Dell UltraSharp webcam, 165. And I actually bought this for my Player 2 because they do a lot of work calls, like video calls.
And player two was using this cheapo 20, you get it off Amazon and it’s just an emergency purchase when you find out you need one of these webcams. And I was quite shocked to compare these together to the 165 4k webcam. I could see no discernible difference. And I would like to give myself enough credit to know that I was not downsampling the.
Resolution by [00:27:00] accident or anything. I did everything I could to confirm that this thing was indeed a piece of junk. And yes, indeed it is. So do not buy this.
Ah, the war on happiness strikes again. The, uh, sub 200 credit didn’t get much value that time around. It
was a bad buy. And then I guess the last one I have.
Is a bigger idea in one purchase and it’s a Sony 85mm telephoto lens for a mirrorless DSLR camera. 550. I made the decision a while ago to get like a nice Sony camera. You quickly realize that you need lenses for these things and boy, are there lenses aplenty on dell. com. If anybody’s looking to kickstart a hobby of expensive [00:28:00] photography, this is ground zero for that.
Over a dozen different lenses to choose from. I think just from Sony. If anybody’s not aware of that, there you go.
Over lensed.
That was, that was a great callback. You got anything else, Justin, that you think is worth mentioning on the consumer purchase in? No,
that’s about all I have. So I’ll get into the other end of it is utilizing buyers clubs or reselling where I’ve been using big sky buyers club and fly piggy.
If you Google them, you’ll find them. And essentially what they’ll do is you sign up for the site. They’ll send you deal alerts or email alerts and saying, Hey. We’re buying this Inspiron laptop, it’s listed at this price. We’re going to pay you for this price, if you order three to your home, or sometimes less, sometimes more, we’ll give you a free [00:29:00] shipping label.
It usually makes sense to ship to home, because some have earned a lifetime achievement award shipping directly to these buyers clubs, and accounts will get flagged as resellers, maybe orders will get cancelled, and that messes up the credits. Avoiding all that hassle, I’ll just ship to my home, get the items, and then ship it out to them with the free label.
So they’ll list the price, they’ll list what they’re paying, you could still stack the portal, Amex offers if you have them, and get most of your money back, if not all, on flipping these laptops. And in this case, you don’t have to list it on Facebook Marketplace and deal with people, you don’t have to list it on eBay.
And then deal with that. You just have to follow some steps like taking pictures of the barcodes or other information, inspect the packages, ship them out in a timely manner, and you’ll get paid through Zelle, Venmo, some other ways that they pay you back.
And [00:30:00] of course, all the usual disclaimers about buyer’s clubs.
It probably doesn’t come as a shock to anyone listening that these places are not FDIC insured. You’re placing your trust in these people. Although I will vouch for Big Sky. They’ve been around a long time. I, I’ve dealt with them before. And so you are running on a track record here of no issues with these clubs.
And I wouldn’t really discourage anybody from it either. Yes,
and the
FlyPiggy
site is flypiggybuyhub. com. Not particularly scaling any of these in that I’m usually only doing this when I have the Dell credits because otherwise, is it going to be worth the time to get the item, repack it, take the pictures, send it out, for like break even ish?
Probably not in my Estimation. But if you have those 200 credits, then you’re getting a really good return on your time, I think.
Yeah. Cause [00:31:00] you’re taking 200 worth of stuff that you, well, and then, I mean, look at it this way, I’m sure you’ve played this psychological game in your head where you’re about to burn a credit and you ask yourself, honestly, okay.
If I didn’t have this credit, would I be buying this item right now? And generally, if the answer is no, you really gotta wonder, why are you not going to a buyer’s club and turning that into cash?
Yeah, maybe instead of getting a really expensive chair, or these LED light bulbs, or some like hue lights, all these things I’ve heard people getting.
Okay, look, I can spend maybe, what, 15 minutes to be conservative of Get the item, take the picture, send it out, enter the information, like this is pretty easy. It’s a good return on time to capture potentially 180, 190 of a 200 credit. I think America really loves math there and [00:32:00] figuring out the hourly on that versus just having stuff.
I get that people might want to avoid the extra time, the extra commitment, but in this case I think it makes sense.
I do find myself. Puzzled by the people who are really into the Philips Hue bulbs, like you said, there’s, for anybody who doesn’t know, Philips, the light manufacturer has this line of like, colored lighting, and there’s some people in some of these Dell groups, not naming any names here, but they will buy thousands of dollars of these and outfit their house To where it almost looks like some sort of gentleman’s club in the entertainment area.
Yeah, and to think of this as it’s money that I can have, so I’m exchanging that 180, 190 for lights. Like, for me, that doesn’t seem to make much sense, especially when you’re paying the annual fees on these cards. Now, in year [00:33:00] one, you’re likely going to get the massive sign up bonus. And other benefits. But if I can convert that 200 credit into 180, 190, potentially more, I’d rather take that cash rather than getting these extraneous items that really don’t appear to be so valuable to me.
But I guess that’s the question of value because some people. We’ll say, Oh, I really going to that steakhouse and spending 300. Oh, it was great steak. It was a great dining experience, but I’d be in the food court spending maybe 10 or 15 and likely using comps. And I have more money that can be used to make more money and have more freedom rather than spending it on things that I don’t value.
Opportunity costs, am I using that right? Is that the terminology? That could be applicable there, but I guess it’s just some reflection on what you find valuable, what you want to do with your money, what you want to do with your time. And yeah, if I can have 180 or a gentleman’s club like atmosphere, I’ll take that 180 personally.
[00:34:00] And nothing against all you guys with the LED neon purple backlights on your televisions. We salute you. And for anyone, I don’t think there’s actually anyone listening to this who is actively wondering to themselves, but I don’t understand, James and Justin, how can one get more than one of these business platinum cards?
I was told I was only allowed one. Perhaps you should consider expanding your membership.
Ooh. Yeah, there’ve been a few times in recent years where Amex would send postal mail and say, yes, expand your relationship, grow your business, and they would have these offers when you would go to the link that they would send you, there wouldn’t be anything in the fine print or terms that would say something along the lines of, you’re ineligible for this if you have or have had this card.
So the community has referred to this as NLL or no lifetime language [00:35:00] offers. So usually it’s the one signup bonus per life or the one signup bonus per seven years, whatever it happens to be. With the NLL offers, people have been finding links. People have been getting these offers through postal mail, some through email, some you just log into your American Express account through the app or browser and you’ll get an invite link to apply for these cards.
So it’s just a little bit of testing and then the value of community and uncovering these links. It’s a good time. It’s a little scavenger hunt. Very fun. Yeah, and it was just a few days ago I got approved for another business gold card as the website frequent miler was alerting people that more are being targeted Use this link and maybe you’ll get approved and with this I saw a little risk because you had to log into your account verify your account to get this There were a few in the past that were just floating around on certain forums, and maybe it was intended for someone else, you didn’t [00:36:00] have to log in, you would just fill out the application and see if you were approved or not.
So maybe some risk there, maybe not, I don’t know, but so far so good, unless a few years ago you signed up for some Amex cards with an employee who may or may not have been named Adam, and then you got shut down due to employees giving you offers.
Neither here nor there. Water under the bridge.
Yeah, some people got restored, so that’s good.
And if you dealt with an employee named Jennifer, you probably had an okay time.
But Adam, for some
reason, took all the heat.
Hey, Adam, Toby, whoever they are out there. CF Frost. And we could talk about risk all day, but I’ll just leave it at this. If you haven’t gotten your fish, an authorized user card, are you really?
You’re really playing the game. Anyway, this is the churn and burn officially podcast and we’ll [00:37:00] do another for a hurdy gurdy in short time, but I would be remiss if I did not stick to the spirit of my pod and ask you, Justin, do you have any trips in the next year that you are particularly excited about?
Oh yes, it’s going to be a busy year in 2025 as many cruise offers have come and lined up. It’s to the point where there were so many offers that I was forced to take two cruises in the same month even though I didn’t want to. Because there weren’t good times to book some of them, so that was a bit of a trouble, let’s say, to try to arrange everything on the calendar to fit all the offers in.
But there have been a lot of interesting opportunities with matching casino statuses, matching cruise offers. So I have a Virgin Voyages cruise, January 5th. It’s the Scarlet Lady. Six night Western Caribbean charm. So this will be the first time with Virgin Voyages. [00:38:00] I’ve heard a lot of good things I’ve heard that cruise quality is much better compared to other brands Maybe like Carnival, MSC that I’ve got on before so the Virgin Voyages will be really nice I think and this is also a balcony room, I believe or a terrace room, whatever they like to call it So it should be a good experience there.
I think it was around 200 for the taxes, fees and wifi included, maybe even the gratuities included. So I’m looking forward to that. And while in that area, I’m going to use the Caesars rewards, diamond status benefit to get complimentary nights in Atlantis. Oh, so it’ll be interesting to do that. There are some taxes and fees and some fine print with the offer.
That you have to gamble a certain amount of time during the visit, but it’s pretty minimal and I’ll go to the Aqua Venture water park is the plan and have a good time with that. So there’s [00:39:00] that cruise. I have a carnival cruise in February and a celebrity cruise in March. The celebrity cruise is a benefit with the MGM Platinum status that I have through spending on the MGM.
Credit card, mainly, and a princess cruise in April. This is an 11 night British Isles cruise on the Regal Princess. That was another casino match. So the UK cruise is looking really nice. July is a cruise out of Rotterdam. I have a Norwegian cruise, a Norwegian fjord cruise. This was from Holland, America, as there was a tier match offer from when Las Vegas, if you had two and non consecutive stays and met the requirements for the tier matching, some other things you’re eligible for a complimentary cruise with Holland, America.
So I choose to go to. Europe, in that case. So lots of different cruises. I didn’t mention all eight there, but those were [00:40:00] some of the most appealing from the bunch. Poland is another trip in April. There was a bonus to transfer Ultimate Rewards out to Air Canada, partnered with LOT, LOT Polish Airlines. So I’ll be flying in business class to Poland as well.
And with the Amsterdam flight, I also have business class. So I’ve made a personal rule of business class when flying overseas and deploying the points for a better travel experience.
So I have to ask this and I’m pretty ignorant as a non, I would describe myself as a non cruiser. You clearly have way more cruises on your calendar than anyone I’ve ever had on the show.
So here’s my question. Is the cruise volume for you, is that more a consequence of all the casino stuff, or are you genuinely just so into cruises?
Originally I was on the fence about cruises. I [00:41:00] was thinking, eh, I don’t really want to pay for a cruise. It didn’t seem so appealing. But if they’re giving it comps or pretty close to comp, I’ll try it and see how it goes.
And I found it nice, it’s a little bit of a retreat to have a lot of personal time, the food is all provided, made for you, a lot of different options, a lot of different ports and sites to see. And I’ve even brought a Nintendo Switch with me in the past, I would have games to play while listening to podcasts, Audible, YouTube.
So it was a nice retreat of sorts, to have some different scenery and a little bit of a different experience. So after I had the comped cruise, if I’m seeing cruises that I can book with very low rates for a few hundred dollars, then I’m game to do it. I even bought a package on one of the princess cruises for the first time, because it seemed to make sense as they included gratuities, included Wi Fi, there were some photos, and some increased dining opportunities.
So I even [00:42:00] paid for a package, which is a really strange thing for me, but I think it was something like maybe fifty, sixty dollars a day, but if I were to pay for the Wi Fi separately, if I were to pay for the gratuity separately, it made sense in this case, and I think I grandfathered in a way, because when someone else looked at the same package at a later time, it went up by about forty or fifty dollars in price.
So I’m generally on the frugal side of things, as we’ve alluded to earlier in the episode. So to pay for a package and really enjoy these cruise experiences, I figured I’ll give it a shot. Try it. And going forward, I’m really liking it. Especially if I can bring my travel microphone and record some content on the go.
Oh yeah. I’ll go ahead
and do that.
When you hear about people who do, uh, they, they use and leverage hotel points to bounce around some of these Hilton’s and Hyatt’s that are in Thailand and Vietnam and Cambodia, almost like they’re [00:43:00] legally homeless and, and they can figure out a way to just live off of this.
And it makes me wonder, is anybody doing this for cruises where you could just perpetually cruise? Around the world on some of these deals.
Yeah, it might get to that maybe 2025 or 2026, I give up my apartment and just live on the go. If the casino offers continue, if I can get some comp nights or nights around like 15, 20 a night.
I guess there’s some mathematical considerations because America loves math and that am I paying this for rent when I could just be living out of hotels and using miles and points to offset. Lifestyle costs in even more ways, because as it stands now, getting all these gas rebates, grocery rebates, or sometimes free or low cost gas, or free or low cost groceries, effectively, taking that bill down to zero or close to it, and getting all the credit card rewards in the process, Think of things [00:44:00] like offsetting cell phone bill even as Chase now has the pay yourself back program That’s working against my Google Fi subscription and purchases I feel very over points with Chase and then I have lots coming in from the 5x Inc spend and 3x on the Chase Sapphire reserve at scale just doing a lot of things in creative ways So if I already have 800, 000 points with Hyatt, I’ve booked all these international trips for next year, I can churn and burn and start to cash out these points at better than one cent per point.
Whereas maybe some would say, okay, I’ll be comfortable using the points for 1. 5 cents per point when traveling. But if I could use it for 1. 25 and I have lots of points, I’m continuing to earn points. Then I can offset some lifestyle costs in that way. Very nice. Very nice. So yeah, any predictions, maybe a 2026, okay.
Find this a residential address, maybe thing that virtual mailbox where I can still get [00:45:00] approved for cards or get bank accounts or a good friend will say, Hey, I’ll just handle your postal mail. Yeah. Like there are some considerations there, parking your vehicle, some logistics and food considerations. We put on like a hundred pounds because we’re just eating out all the time.
There, there’s some questions there and some lifestyle changes, but I know some other people have become nomadic and yeah, friends saying, well, what are you doing? Like you’re at your apartment, like less than half the time. Hey, are you just going to live out at hotels? And what the cruise offers, it’s like, Oh, if I can take two cruises in a month, that’s covering two weeks out of the month.
So is your apartment and glorified storage space? So these are some questions going into the new year, but it’s also a nice. Uh, lifestyle thing of just being able to make the food, have the kitchen, have all my items stored here pretty securely, not lugging around luggage, and unpacking and repacking life so often, so we’ll see what’s going forward, but it just shows you how much the miles and points [00:46:00] hobby can be so life changing and even more than a hobby in many cases.
I would never ever Throw 2, 000, 3, 000 down on a flight or even more or go on a cruise and pay full price. But miles and points has really changed that and allow that to happen even to the point where I quit my traditional jobs, and I’m just doing this by the day and playing poker sometimes during the night.
I don’t think we mentioned that, but you are technically jobless, right? Yes, that’s correct. It’s so cool. It’s one of those things where when you start to do this hobby, it’s almost crazy how it goes from something as simple as, wow, wouldn’t it be cool if I could just get a free trip and you go from that to this crazy extreme that you’re clearly at.
Where it’s an actual career and maybe even more than a career, if you really encapsulate it.
Yeah, absolutely. [00:47:00] More peace of mind, more flexibility of time, no more having to negotiate with management about, Oh, I want to take these days off. Do I have this time? Do I have that time? And if I can keep my expenses low and keep money coming in, making money and saving money.
Then, yeah, what do I really need the fancy lights for? What do I need the fancy clothes, the brand new car, the steakhouses, all these other things that people assign a lot of value to that I look as being very empty in many ways. This is a callback to Stoic philosophy, particularly the works of Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, and Epictetus that have been Really inspirational for me and just asking questions about what are the value of things is the opinion and the glamour and the fame are these things really worth it.
People say, oh, this is important, your reputation, you need to do these things and please all these people and wear these certain clothes and hold these certain titles. Maybe it’s not as worthwhile as it’s advertised to be. [00:48:00] So we can still, I think through points and miles, have these nice things, not go overboard and pay very little and just have a lot of diverse experiences, get out there in the world, learn new things, apply ourselves, and so it’s been really cool for me.
Yeah, in the words of the great Tyler Durden from Fight Club, the things you own
you. Yes, and even in in Epictetus and Seneca, they’ve made references to under a thatched roof dwells slavery. Oh. Are you slavish to the things and what kind of time and money are you expending? To have these possessions and these
things, right?
I’ve never felt a slave to my belongings when I was in Delta one.
Yeah, they would call these things preferred indifference that, okay, you can have some nice things. You can have moderation. They’re not going toward, okay, don’t own anything and drink out of a cup and a fountain kind of lifestyle. [00:49:00] Be out there in the community.
So you could have some nice things, but just to be mindful. About that and have balance in your life and be pro social and contribute. So that’s what I’ve been doing with building community, having the podcast, teaching others, helping others. My friend, Jack, I met, he is a poker dealer and I mentioned some things to him.
And he got into the hobby and sometimes he’d see me at the table. I’d mentioned something and. He’d be like shaking his head because the people aren’t listening. They don’t want to hear it. Guy’s complaining about, Oh, travel’s so expensive and I say something. And he’s, yeah, he, they don’t care. They, you can tell them once or twice, but they’re not really listening.
Especially the poker dealers. These dealers have been dealing cards to me for years and years. And it’s, Hey, there’s a better way to do this. Instead of coming back from your vacation and being broke. Hey, you could do this or that and pay very little or pay next to nothing for the travel, but then they just don’t do it and complain more.
So it’s just very sad. We can’t reach everyone, unfortunately, [00:50:00] but we could at least put the word out there and maybe they act on the information.
It’s a good point. I think this hobby, everybody listening probably understands this in their own way. It really rewires your brain in terms of what are your priorities, and what kind of trips are you booking, and why are you booking them, and who are you going on them with, and it really is holding a mirror up to yourself when you get really deep into Award travel, because I think it, they say, what is it, the, the old saying about alcohol doesn’t change character, it reveals character.
I think award travel. Ooh, yes, and money too. Money, yeah. I think award travel is the same thing. It doesn’t change you, it just reveals who you really are and what you really want.
Yeah, so it’s really reflecting on priorities, what you want to accomplish, and. How you’re trading your time. How are you using your time?
How are you valuing it? What are you doing with that? [00:51:00] Yeah, we’re, we’re at Kroger getting fuel points. I’m on a, I’m on a world tour. I’ve gone to six grocery stores today, but I looked, it was like the other day, just thinking, Oh, I spent this much, this many hours. This was a good day. I just driving around, chatting with cashiers, buying some gift cards.
This was
a good day. This was a nice Monday guys. This is the reward for everybody who made it to the end of this episode. You’re getting real like philosophical advice here. Okay. You’re welcome. And
meanwhile, we hear things from Dave Ramsey, who’s saying that you need to go into debt and pay thousands of dollars in interest in order to get.
An airline mile and go on a trip. It’s just really interesting. So we’re just giving you a different perspective here of this stuff is real. So be responsible. What you’re telling
me, Justin, is that you’re going to get, you’re going to go into 50, 000 of debt for an airline
mile. [00:52:00] Ooh, that is a really good one.
I’ve been working on it. You’re going to spend 20, 000 on Discover to get 200. The, the debtor is
slave to the lender, Justin, you know this.
Yeah, he never gives you the other side of the story that you can be responsible with your spending, that you could be smart. And I’ll admit if you can’t be responsible with spending and you’re going to be just using credit to buy useless stuff that you can’t afford.
That’s not the way to go, so the people who can’t be responsible with credit shouldn’t play the credit card game. And I’m not going to be out there saying, Oh, because some people are irresponsible with alcohol that nobody should drink. But that’s Dave saying nobody should have credit. And then when you debunk his silly arguments, then it’s, Oh, the banks are so terrible, you shouldn’t deal with them.
You’re making money off the backs of single moms who can’t afford groceries, who are paying 20 percent interest. All that stuff.
Yeah. And I, for the record, I think what he offers is good for, like you [00:53:00] said, for a certain demographic of people, but clearly not people in this space, I don’t think.
Yeah. I just like him to be honest about how credit scores actually work and that you can have a high credit score without paying interest.
And just being reasonable about it, giving the other side of the story, but he just won’t do that. And I think he’s just bullshitting people.
Yeah, we’ve discussed a lot. I feel like we gotta wrap it up because if we don’t, we’re gonna eliminate any possible discussion for the, uh, the crossover episode.
All right, we’ll hang up and call again and get a little bit of a different experience the next
time.
Nice. Very good tie in. There you go. All right, everybody, I think that’s going to be it for this one, but please make sure you tune into Justin’s hurdy gurdy travel podcast and listen to this episode and a future one to come very soon as well. [00:54:00] And Justin, thanks again for coming on, man. I really appreciate it.
All right, good
discussion, nice to chat, nice to be on the other side of the microphone or the interviewer chair. Much appreciated. Yep. See you all next time. Ternum and Bernum. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for future episodes. Early bird ticket sales for ZorkFest 2025, a miles points and gambling event are now live at zorkfest.
travelzork. com. I spoke at the successful ZorkFest 2024 event and hope to see you at ZorkFest 2025 in Las Vegas from December 5th through December 7th. I’m also looking forward to other events in 2025 and had a successful 2024 speaking at events with Award Travel 101, Frequent Traveler University, and both Chicago Seminars events.
If you’re an event organizer and would like to have me speak at your 2025 event, please contact me. Visit meetup. com slash philly miles [00:55:00] and points. To RSVP for monthly Greater Philadelphia Travel Credit Miles and Points Meetups, I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. The next meetups are December 15th, 2024 and January 26th, 2025.
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