Maximize Your Miles with the Professor of Points | Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast
Travel hacking with credit card points and miles made simple.
Host Justin Vacula sits down with Hunter Threadgill — the Professor of Points — to share proven strategies for earning more rewards, booking premium flights and hotels for less, and optimizing cards like Atmos Summit and Venture X.
We also bust common myths from credit card critics and preview upcoming Frequent Traveler University events.
What you’ll learn:
Hunter’s system for compounding points without overspending
When to use transferable currencies vs. co-branded points
Practical redemptions for premium cabins and top hotels
Card strategy: Atmos Summit, Venture X, and smart wallet stacking
How to answer Dave-Ramsey-style objections with facts and math
Negotiating retention offers and keeping your annual fees in check
Chapters
00:00 Intro: Low-cost travel with points and miles
01:47 Meet Hunter Threadgill, the Professor of Points
04:03 Frequent Traveler Education Foundation and Awards
08:01 Maximizing credit card rewards and benefits
19:53 Events and announcements
22:41 Support the podcast and community
25:06 Athens trip: Grand Hyatt and first class flights
27:32 Honeymoon highlights: Aruba and Maldives
29:39 Debunking common credit card myths
40:26 Upcoming trips and plans
42:34 Final thoughts and farewell
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Rough Transcript:
Theme Song: [00:00:00] Travel at low cost with points and miles. Credit card rewards bring the smiles. Many adventures tales to be told, make and save money, the world will unfold.
Fight the war on happiness. Pick up the gold. Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast breaks the mold.
Justin Vacula: You’re listening to the Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast. I’m your host, Justin Vacula, here to help you make money, save money, and travel the world, and next to no cost with credit card points, miles, benefits, and loyalty programs. Thanks for joining me for today’s episode, miles and Points with Hunter Threadgill.
We talk about Hunter’s experience with miles and points, his recent trips, tips for beginners, and we respond to recent bad takes from the Dave Ramsey [00:01:00] team. Visit meetup.com/philly. Miles and points to RSVP for monthly Greater Philadelphia Travel Credit Miles and points meetups I host in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania.
The next meetups are October 19th and December 21st, 2025. Find a link in the show notes for more content between podcast episodes. Follow Hurdy Gurdy Travel Podcast on Facebook and x follow Justin Vacula on Instagram. Subscribe to Hurdy Gurdy Travel podcast on YouTube for daily content, including travel videos, podcast clips, and posts.
Find more information including episode transcripts at HurdyGurdyTravel.com. on with today’s episode recorded, October 2nd, 2025. Welcome to the show, hunter and happy October quarter. Four new things at the start of the month. Lots happening.
Hunter Threadgill: Thank you Justin. It’s really good to be here on the Hurdy Gurdy Travel podcast.
Really excited to talk with you. [00:02:00] Excellent. And for those who don’t know you, tell
Justin Vacula: us a little bit about yourself.
Hunter Threadgill: Like Justin said, my name is Hunter Threadgill. My tra Points and Miles Travel persona is the professor of Points I currently write@thepointsanalyst.com, and you can find me on Instagram at Professor of Points.
I’ve been in the Points and Miles game since about 2015. Trying to take a very logical and scientific method to the way in which I use points and miles. I have my PhD in Psychology from the University of Alabama Roll Todd. But the name Professor of Points is a play on that. ’cause once you get your PhD, you can become a professor.
And I decided to play with the Professor of Points moniker
Justin Vacula: Nice. And America indeed loves math. Professors teaching math of course. Absolutely, definitely get a good eye roll when teaching the statistics parts of all those classes, but now it actually comes into play in real life. [00:03:00] Students wonder, oh, am I ever really gonna use math in real life?
And we definitely use it a lot here in points and miles. Calculating sense per point, trying to figure out if certain deals are worthwhile, adding benefits. Lots going on. I’ve
Hunter Threadgill: learned how to use Excel spreadsheets like no other. I could probably hang with Scott Kirby up at United, who’s known for being in the spreadsheets.
I could probably hang up with him.
Justin Vacula: Oh, cool, cool. Yeah. So you’ll have to figure out how many P QPS you need for status, how much card spend you need to do, how much you have to spend each month. And that’s one of the math equations. Oh yeah, absolutely. And that all goes in cell M 1,127. And for those that don’t know, that’s PQP, the premier qualifying points for United status.
And speaking of United, I flew United recently. We met in Chicago. I used some travel bank funds to get from Chicago to Las Vegas and a bit to get back to Vegas. So United came into play there. Tell us about our [00:04:00] experience in Chicago or more your experience.
Hunter Threadgill: So we’re both board members of the Frequent Traveler Education Foundation.
Our big consumer facing event is the Frequent Traveler University, but as part of that too, we also are the sponsors of the Frequent Traveler Awards, which are the largest awards ceremony, celebrating loyalty programs and all that they do. This past year we had over 3 million votes on looking at.
Airlines, hotels, cruises, and car rentals all over the world, whether it be North America, EMEA, or Asia. What was super cool was Vietnam Airlines won an award and they flew someone from Vietnam to accepted in Chicago. And with that too, we also got to do some networking. And here’s some great lectures out at Loyalty Summit.
Justin Vacula: Mia, you’re talking about the Middle East and Asia, right? Yeah, Europe, middle East and Africa actually. Ah, Africa A that’s right. All [00:05:00] the acronyms right? That’s right. Can’t have enough within Points and Miles World and even MGM Rewards was there, so that was very interesting. As a Neil, I believe the VP with MGM International was there speaking with Michael Traeger of Zork Fest.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. Yeah. They both had an interesting conversation about the relationship between the commercial side of like casino elite programs and how consumers take in and actually interact with these elite programs. It was really fascinating to see this back and forth between the commercial side and the customer side.
And I don’t wanna call it a battle because it was very cordial and it just re, but I think what was really important is it highlighted that. Both groups of people come at these programs from very unique perspectives.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, we heard from people from Citi and they were talking about the Strata Elite card recent releases.
Someone was from sixth, SIXT, and they [00:06:00] said that they might be coming out with a credit card in the next year. So that’d be interesting. And representatives from Alaska Airlines are now Atmos, and that’s how they pronounce the Atmos, not Atmos. They were talking about how they built the credit card, what they were looking for to add to, and I think it’s been a resounding success in the Miles and points community.
Many positive reviews about the Atmos, credit cards, especially the Summit card.
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, I actually just hit the set a signup bonus, just hit my Alaska or the summit, including that 25,000 point companion certificates. And because I signed up before. It was released, I got the extra 5,000 miles, so in total I’m gonna get 130,000 miles worth of value out of it.
So I’m really looking forward to trying to figure out where to use that 25,000 miles certificate. My wife’s excited as well, knowing the value from those Alaska miles that we hit.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, really powerful card and lots of benefits and I think interesting. The three x points on foreign transactions and no foreign [00:07:00] transaction fee.
So I think that could be the go-to card for use. Overseas and then many of the benefits like the wifi, the lounge access and more. I think it was really appealing to the Points of Miles crowd, even with the higher annual fee. The signup bonus was very big and the benefits are definitely there.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely.
And what I like too is that you get a lot of value for your everyday spend there particularly ’cause you also get A one elite mile per $2 spent with the summit. It’s actually caused me, I’m a, I’m based in the DC area. I fly out of Reagan National, which you fly anywhere in the DC area. That’s a hub for American Airlines.
I currently have gold status with American. I usually hit platinum. It’s caused me to really rethink my strategy moving forward, particularly because I’m able to get elite status quite easily with just with that card, very much equivalent to the American Airlines. But I just find the Alaska program just to be so much more rewarding, particularly with all of the different milestones and the different levels, [00:08:00] which I use for my travels.
Justin Vacula: Any other favorite cards that you have besides the New Atmos Summit card? I still
Hunter Threadgill: love the Venture X. Again, I live in DC, so I have a Capital One landing at Ronald Reagan National Airport and a Capital One lounge out at Dulles. So that $395, I absolutely get every dollar out of it and more. I actually, those lounges I think are so good.
I show up early. I think the Capital One landing has restaurant quality meals, which is super great. And as someone who actually volunteers at Ronald Reagan airport on Wednesday nights, I take advantage of the half price food options at the Capital One, landing up a little public facing serve fast serve.
Restaurant they have. So that’s probably a card I’m spending a lot on. I’ve spent a lot on my Hyatt business card ’cause I like to keep that globalist. My business travel has dropped not significantly, but quite a bit. And so I’m now having to get more creative in how I’m able to actually keep my globalist status because [00:09:00] I use that a lot.
Particularly ’cause it’s just my wife and I.
Justin Vacula: Yes, the Hyatt Globalist status I found to be very nice from spending on the Hyatt Personal and the Hyatt business card. So you’ve been doing that as well, right?
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. And Hyatt really does fit my wife and i’s travel patterns. So it truly is just a top-notch loyalty program to really go after globalist with,
Justin Vacula: yes, a lot of nice benefits and I think consistency across the hotel brands.
I often hear a lot of negative feedback about Marriott and inconsistent benefits and even Hilton recently. Sometimes you’re getting a comp breakfast. Sometimes it’s only a $10 dining credit. When I was in Chicago, it was a pretty lame benefit. It was, oh, here’s, you could use a $10 credit in our kitchen area.
And the pack of hummus with crackers was like $8. And they didn’t even have the breakfast at all. Really? No breakfast at all. No breakfast at all unless you wanted to pay for it. And that was in a restaurant, but I don’t even believe it was their restaurant.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh [00:10:00] man, that’s pretty wild in a city like Chicago, where obviously you can go to a Dunkin or a Panera or something and get something, but it’s just easy to have that restaurant there
Justin Vacula: in the hotel and.
Oh yes, definitely. We went to Panera together. It was funny because we were with Tommy Danielson and he said something like, oh, where do you suggest going? I’ll get you guys lunch. And I said, yeah, let’s go to Panera. It’s just a short walk. And we got there. He said, we came all the way here just to save me some money on coffee.
I said, yeah, absolutely. I have the unlimited SIP club. Might as well. Free perks. Yes. Sip. Sip Club. Yes. Panera. If you wanna sponsor the podcast, let us know. They love their
Hunter Threadgill: SIP club. I always see deals for it. They really are pushing it. And I’ve used it before when I lived like two blocks from the Panera and Oh nice.
Justin Vacula: I enjoyed it. Yeah, I think there was a New Egg gift card deal. It was 20% off Panera gift card in three months of SIP Club, so that was a really cool one that came about. Oh, that’s a great deal. And American Express was putting it out as part of a promotion in the [00:11:00] past, and when they launched it, there was like three months for 1 99 or some similar thing like that.
So it keeps. Coming back, people dipping in and out. But I’m in for the annual membership, I pay the annual fee for 80 bucks a year. ’cause I have a really local one and I see many on the go. So it’s just paying attention to some programs and trying to find value. And I think that’s really what we’re doing here in miles and points.
Rather than just paying full price cash for travel, we’re getting these different credit cards, using these different loyalty programs to our advantage and we get to use
Hunter Threadgill: it as a way that helps us. Travel in a bit more style. I’d happily pay for an economy ticket if I didn’t have points in miles. ’cause I still love to travel.
But it’s really nice when you walk onto that airplane and you turn left and you get that life flat seat and get to sleep while you’re flying overnight over the Atlantic Ocean. You can’t beat that.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. So not only saving money on travel, but better accommodations, better experience.
Hunter Threadgill: And that allows you to hit the ground running, which is really what’s important is ’cause [00:12:00] you get to go experience all of these new places that you’ve never been before, different cultures.
And when you’re a zombie for that first day, you just lose a day to really get to experience it like you might want to,
Justin Vacula: but seeing a lot of Facebook memes or images about, oh, wake up at six o’clock, leave home at seven, be at the airport at eight, bored at eight 30, and fly. With some kind of like flight math or timetable, and I found this to be quite weird because when I get to the airport, I’m almost always getting there for the airport lounge.
As I’ve said before, that’s often starting the vacation for me.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh, absolutely. One of my favorite lounges is actually the Polaris Lounge at Dulles. You walk the Polar, the United Terminal is still the temporary terminal. Terminal from the eighties. I guess 40 years is temporary. But their face is absolutely gorgeous inside that lounge, and the meal is pretty good too.
And so it really just allows you just to relax before you hop on that long flight and fly [00:13:00] overnight.
Justin Vacula: Recently I went to the Chase Sapphire Lounge in Philadelphia. That’s been great. I was there shortly after it opened in April, I believe. I have a video on my YouTube channel. People can check out if they haven’t been there.
There’s even an arcade inside the lounge. The place is huge compared to Centurion Lounge in Philly. That was quite crowded. Or past podcast guest Justin Walter called the Delta Sky Club of Philadelphia, the Delta Sky Closet, because it was a smaller place, the Chase Lounge is quite spacious, and I also went to the AA Flagship Lounge, the American Airlines Flagship Lounge because now I have Privilege Club, gold Status from the Cutter or Qatar Cardless credit card.
So I was able to use the lounge there. As well. So instead of spending on expensive airport food or just having something small at home, I can go to the airport, have the peace of mind of being there early, hanging out, and if there happens to be a delay, I’m not sitting in the boarding area, I’m sitting in the lounge.
So complimentary drinks, food, [00:14:00] and a good experience.
Hunter Threadgill: I was at the flagship lounge in Miami and they were serving prime rib sliced directly in front of you on a proper carving board. So can’t beat that.
Justin Vacula: The answer to everything is more credit cards, more cards for more lounge access. Absolutely. And flying up front more often.
And how did you get involved with all
Hunter Threadgill: of this? How’d you get started? So back when I was in grad school, I had the opportunity to go to China a few times, and that was back when American Airlines was awarding leap miles still for distance traveled. So that’s 12,000 miles round trip and I was going two to three times a year.
And so that really got me starting to look into points and miles and really trying to figure out how I can maximize them and travel more. I then met my now wife who I was living in Alabama at the time, about an hour outside of Birmingham in Tuscaloosa, and she was living in Charlotte and it was, that’s a [00:15:00] direct flight on American Airlines, and they charge $400 for a round trip flight over one weekend.
I made $15,000 a year, so $400 was not gonna cut It. Started looking around some more, learned some manufacturing spending techniques, and I’ve just, I can’t quit the hobby. I gotta have more points and miles.
Justin Vacula: So you started pretty small and then over time you found some creative spending where advanced techniques to spend even more to get more points, more signup, bonuses and benefits.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. At one point I was spending a million dollars a year just Oh wow. Advanced spending techniques. I couldn’t sign up for cards fast enough to get all those signup bonuses and I really learned how to scale my actual spending and figured out using my Excel spreadsheets how to, on my cost per point to very little and really get an outsized value to be able to travel and
Justin Vacula: see my wife.
Nice. And many business owners, I think there’s quite an appeal because if they already are spending a lot [00:16:00] of money or even a. A somewhat decent amount of money. They can definitely sign up for new cards, shift their spend, put their spend on different cards, and then also get some higher category returns is, I think it was a few months ago, I went to a networking event with some real estate people and one guy was talking about, oh, I put all of my spend on an Amex business Gold, and I was explaining that you’re only getting like one X on most of your spend.
You’re paying an annual fee and not really getting much in return. For it. So it’s definitely helping to have multiple cards to maximize and optimize.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. I remember when the Blue Business Plus card came out and I that I had found a 15,000 point signup bonus max that card out so quickly. I was so proud of getting that 15,000 points because it didn’t have a signup bus at the time.
But getting those two points per dollar spend on the first $50,000 in spend for each year. It was really nice to see those a hundred thousand points drop into my American Express [00:17:00] account,
Justin Vacula: and it’s really gotten much better since then. As it was like two years ago, American Express was sending out a lot of these invitations, expand your relationship, sign up for another business, platinum card, another business gold card, and these were coming in so hot and heavy.
I was getting multiple offers, but it’s 90 days in between signing up for the same card or the same product with them. So some of the offers ended up expiring. I think it was one time where I had five business platinums at the same time, some high annual fees, but it made sense because the signup bonuses were so big, like a hundred K points, definitely offsetting.
I think at the time it was something like a 5 95 or 6 95 annual fee, getting all the benefits as well.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. Earlier this year I got, I picked up three business flat cards at 200,000 points per signup bonus, which even if I have to pay another annual fee, ’cause it was a goal, biz Gold to Biz Plat upgrade, it’s well worth it for that 200,000 American [00:18:00] Express points, which even cashed out.
If I had add the Charles swab card would be another
Justin Vacula: America Loves Math moment.
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, like 22 thou or $2,200. Absolutely makes sense for just that one signup bonus.
Justin Vacula: Yes. We’re generally in it for the long game. It’s nice to keep cards and get ongoing benefits, but some of ’em, the annual fee is so high and some people get scared about that.
I think new to miles and points, but I tell people that you’re not married to the annual fee, that you might only have the card for the first year and then you can evaluate in year two and you can product change downgrade. Or even cancel the card, how does that go for you and some of the higher annual fee cards?
Hunter Threadgill: So right now I have five, maybe six premium annual fee cards with the recent platinum I’ve now I have seven premium cards and with the recent changes to the platinum cards up, being up at $895 a year, and I’ve got three platinums that’s. [00:19:00] It’s almost $2,700. Definitely gonna be a choice of downgrading some of them or just getting rid of them outright when the time comes because as much as I love my perks in the card, $2,700 even for all those perks is a bit of a stretch for me at that point.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. So we might get invitations to open you yet another one. So if we close one, we’ve had it for a year or a little bit more than a year, then we could just get the benefits on that other card and just keep it rolling. Yeah, absolutely. And
Hunter Threadgill: fingers crossed, when you log into your Amex account, the popup comes up that says, upgrade your card or get another,
Justin Vacula: oh yes.
I’ve gone from personal gold to personal platinum. I’ve gone from business gold to business platinum. So occasionally these things happen.
Hunter Threadgill: Yes, absolutely. And right now I keep getting the Get another Blue Business Plus card popping up.
Justin Vacula: Nice. So lots of things to look forward to. And earlier you mentioned about Frequent Traveler Education Foundation and Frequent Traveler University.
We’ve been working a [00:20:00] lot behind the scenes towards the future, some upcoming events, some changes, some special announcements. Can you give us a little bit of a taste of what’s to come before the announcements are finalized?
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, so we are working really hard to get the benefits, get some great benefits for someone buying a premium membership.
Get some really good seminars, some good networking, and a really awesome event coming up in May back in Dallas at our flagship in person event in Dallas at FTU. Right now, we’re working on getting the benefits up and running for the premium membership. ’cause not only do you get the discount for the in-person events, but we’re also working with different brands to offer something really great.
Just for example. You get a 30% discount with card pointers, we get a free month of mentoring from Big Ben’s deal. Those are both confirmed. We have some other confirmed that I’m not going to talk about right now, [00:21:00] as well as some really awesome brands that we’re interacting with and trying to get those deals closed so that way we can offer a ton of value for our members.
Additionally, we’re relaunching our virtual seminars. I’ve been working align. Really great speakers, including classic ones that would love like Dy Ger, Justin with Dy Gerdy, Michael Traeger with Zo Fest, but also some ones who have really been outside the FTU universe and really expanding and getting people who are bringing in more and more people into points and miles through alternative media.
Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. Getting them involved in what we believe to be the premier education group. For those who are interested in learning more about points and models, very on-brand for
Justin Vacula: professor of points,
Hunter Threadgill: if there’s one thing that I do miss about being in the classroom is just the ability to help people learn new things [00:22:00] about travel.
See their eyes light up when they learn something they never learned before, which I think is just a really, it’s a really great feeling for me and one that I feel super motivated to really try and get people really involved
Justin Vacula: and excited about what they’re learning. Nice. And that’s Ben’s big deal. I think you said big Ben’s deal.
That would be like the clock tower.
Hunter Threadgill: Ben has the ability to wash over and make sure we’re the wrong path. So you know Ben’s big deal. Big Ben’s deal. I mean it’s all leading to the right way to go. So fully supported
Justin Vacula: L B’s big boy, the old restaurant.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh yeah. Big boy. Yeah.
Justin Vacula: A rel a relic of the past.
Oh, absolutely. All right. Very good. We’ll take a quick break for some announcements and then come back. If you’re enjoying today’s episode, don’t forget Zork Fest. 2025 is coming up in Las Vegas, December 5th through the seventh at M Resort, casino Hotel, Zork Fest combines miles points and gambling content all in one weekend.
I’ll be [00:23:00] there speaking and connecting with podcast listeners. Buy your ticket@zorkfest.travel zork.com. I’ll also be speaking at Chicago Seminars Hyatt Regency O’Hare, November 7th through the ninth, 2025. Use the promo code Dy Gurdy when buying a ticket to support me. Also, join me October 24th through the 26th for Chicago Seminars Holiday Inn, Chicago Oak Brook.
Use promo code. I must have a promo code 20 for $20 off tickets. This episode is also supported by card pointers. If you have multiple credit cards like me, card pointers helps you automatically activate bank offers and knows which card to use. For maximum rewards card pointer saves me time and money.
Use my link card pointers.com/her gardy Travel for a discount on annual and lifetime plans. This week I was shopping for gift cards Best Buy Online, and I saw a $25 off, 25 off of two 50, which was quite nice. So card pointers, [00:24:00] activating that offer, bringing it to my attention. Card pointers continuing to pay for itself.
I also host monthly travel points and miles meetups in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. Our next meetups are October 19th through the 21st, 2025. The last one was very successful. We had about 15 people, so thanks podcast listeners and others for attending. We had a small room that had three tables and there was like a lineup of chairs in the back.
So next time we’re gonna need another table. We expected 10, but we got 15 or maybe even more. If you’re local or wanna make the trip, it’s a fun, casual way to talk point strategies. Meet like-minded travelers and share ideas. RSVP at meetup.com/philly. Miles and points. And we’re back here with Hunter Threadgill, professor of points, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me, Justin. Really enjoying our conversation. Alright, and just remind
Hunter Threadgill: listeners where they can find you online. So I’m currently a writer for the Points [00:25:00] analyst@thepointsanalyst.com, and you can also find me on Instagram at Professor of Points.
Justin Vacula: All right, very good. And let’s talk about some of your recent trips, redeeming miles and points.
Hunter Threadgill: So my last big one, so my company is based in the uk, my day job, and they flew us out to Athens, which was super great. They actually hosted the trip at the Grand Hyatt Athens, which was a super great hotel. I also extended my trip for an extra night, which was really great. Got upgraded to a suite as a part of my globalist status.
And one thing that is super beautiful about that hotel is at the rooftop pool has a beautiful view of the Acropolis. At night. Have you seen the Acropolis light? Oh, nice. For everything that it is. And it’s just an absolutely beautiful view. And then on my way back, instead of routing an economy through London, I about one week [00:26:00] before my return flight was supposed to be, I found first class award space on the A three 80 out of London Heathrow flying via British Airways.
Which was super fun. I only paid $400 in fees. The six, it really originally was $600. But because I hold the British Airways Chase Visa card, I get a $200 rebate, which I absolutely put to use, given how much I fly through London. So it’s definitely a keeper card for me, gain money out of it, and I was able to enjoy not just the first class lounge at Lennon Heathrow, but the Concord room.
Which was absolutely gorgeous and really got me thinking about the Concord that used to fly. Never got to fly it, but I tons of respect for it. And then flying in first class on the A 3 80, 1 of the last remaining true first class products in the world.
Justin Vacula: Nice. Your out-of-pocket cost was very low for this, and you got to have a great experience as well.
Hunter Threadgill: Absolutely. I paid $400 [00:27:00] total for that one way flight, which flying through Heathrow with those. Crazy government fees. I was more than happy to pay to get to fly that flight
Justin Vacula: and hotel. Covered incidentals, maybe being some small expenses, but overall some massive savings.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh, absolutely. I probably spent not including the fees on my award flights, maybe spent $300 on that whole trip, which was an absolute blessing to get to go and experience Athens, Greece.
Justin Vacula: Nice and any other favorite trips, especially international.
Hunter Threadgill: My, my wife and I, we got married in 2019 and I really enjoyed our honeymoon at the Renaissance Aruba, which is famous for the Flamingo Island in the Marriott brand, which was a really interesting way, ’cause I got that entire trip, including airfare for free.
Not even, didn’t even really have to use points and miles, which is another story for another day. But [00:28:00] we decided to, after COVID, we decided to take a massive trip with points and miles I’ve collected during the COVID years, and we flew Qatar Airways from Washington DC to the Maldives, stayed at the park Hyatt Maldives for a week, then flew the Etihad through Abu Dhabi all business class to Rome.
Spent a couple of days using small luxury hotels of the world when it was with Hyatt at the time. And then flew Austrian Airlines through Vienna, all in business class, including an overnight at the Park Hyatt, Vienna. One of the absolute best trips of, or the absolute best trip of my life. I could not be happier and probably got well over $50,000 worth of value out of that trip.
All on points and miles.
Justin Vacula: Nice. I hear a lot of, oh, we have to save up for a honeymoon, or people go on a honeymoon and then they’re broke when they get back. But in this case, it’s definitely not the case.
Hunter Threadgill: The airfare. The hotels were all paid with points and miles and we were able to go on tours. We were able to eat amazing meals, get souvenirs, [00:29:00] have to pay that pesky airport transfer fee outta the seaplane, huh?
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was always super interesting for the park Hyatt Maldives, you fly trans Maldivian Airways and it’s charged to the hotel, and I guess you could sign up for the trans valdivian. Airways loyalty program, but because it’s charged, you actually get Hyatt points on that spend for that airfare, some kind of rebate.
Yeah, so I got, because I paid with my Hyatt card, I ended up getting 13 points per dollar spent, or excuse me, 11 points per dollar spent because I have my globalist status and the four X back on my Hyatt card.
Justin Vacula: All right, nice. Let’s move on to responding to some critics. It’s interesting, I see a lot of these posts on Facebook again.
Perhaps because I post about personal finance credit cards and more, and through many sources come. Dave Ramsey and his co-host. This one was interesting from George Camel, K-A-M-E-L. It seems like he’s trying [00:30:00] to make you feel guilty about miles and points. So when the base arguments fail, when what they’re saying really doesn’t make sense, it’s an appeal to emotion.
It’s trying to shame you. They’re using these shaming tactics here. This is what he says. So while you’re flexing that free flight, someone else is drowning in debt to fund it. They convinced you’re winning so you wouldn’t notice you’re being used. And that friends is how they afford to sponsor the Taylor Swift tour.
While many can’t afford a ticket,
Hunter Threadgill: that is just a very interesting argument to me because here’s the thing, credit cards were built so that way you could. Purchase items when you didn’t have the cash on. Sometimes you need to purchase a meal and you might not have cash. You might be traveling for work.
And as part of that way of paying for that, you could, they make money in one of two ways, one on interest, which you definitely don’t wanna pay. I think [00:31:00] I’ve accidentally paid like $10 on interest once on a card out of all my years. I think I’ve only paid interest once and it was complete accident.
It was $10. But then also on interchange fees. This is the fee that a vendor will pay to pay for access to actually accept that card, and that’s what’s paying for our points and miles. It’s not the interest. The interest is just gravy for the banks. What pays for our points and miles are those interchange fees.
Let’s say they charge 3% interchange fee and they rebate back 2% to us, it is what it is. I just think it’s wild to think that. To assume because I fly for freeze, it’s because of someone else making the choice to go
Justin Vacula: into debt. And just because others are not making great financial decisions, does that mean that we should just sit home and not take these flights because we can use credit responsibly.
They can’t. So therefore we just shouldn’t engage at all. Cancel everything, pay full price for travel. That doesn’t make sense to [00:32:00] me.
Hunter Threadgill: No, it doesn’t make sense to me either because. I wanna see the world and I’m responsible with my credit, and so I might, or I’m responsible with my finances. I have the means.
I’ve been blessed with having a great paying job where I don’t have to worry about going into debt. I’m just gonna take that rebate and I’m gonna run with it. I don’t spend more than, if I spend everything in Cash’s, just I’m getting something back in return for what I’m gonna spend already.
Justin Vacula: Yes. It’s this constant thing they take.
Is that because some people. Misuse something that it’s all bad, and I wonder how far they would extend that. Some people overeat at buffets, so Justin, you should never go to a buffet because some people eat too much and maybe have some eating problems, or some people drink alcohol too much and become violent, so you should never even drink a glass of wine.
They, I don’t think they’re going to apply that kind of logic or reasoning globally. I
Hunter Threadgill: don’t think there’s any reason to throw the baby out with the bath water just [00:33:00] because it’s too much of anything can be bad. You could drink too much milk and get sick, but that doesn’t mean milk
Justin Vacula: is bad for you. I’m a fan of birds and we both take joy in The birds aren’t real like parody movement, and some people might be bird watchers, maybe spend too much time birdwatching, and that could be a bad thing, but because some people.
Watch birds too much, or maybe they’re obsessed, people like that word obsessed. Maybe that just because some people do something too much doesn’t mean that we can’t have a hobby, be responsible and be disciplined.
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, I think it’s all about just not taking it, going too hard into something where it consumes you in a negative way.
Justin Vacula: He brings Taylor Swift into it, which is funny. This is how they afford to sponsor the Taylor Swift tour. So is it is that really, Taylor Swift is completely funded by people playing, paying credit card interest. I can’t imagine that to be true.
Hunter Threadgill: I’m not someone with a massive following, but I don’t think insulting Taylor Swift is the way to increase your [00:34:00] following with people.
Justin Vacula: And many people at miles and points, perhaps ironically flew international to see Taylor Swift because they recognized that the price of tickets in the US were quite high. I’ve had podcast guests on before. Oh, I flew to Europe to see Taylor Swift and the tickets were a lot cheaper.
Hunter Threadgill: I think Point Chaser flew out, Ariana flew out to Singapore to see Taylor Swift.
Justin Vacula: Yeah.
Hunter Threadgill: And on Miles and Points too. Oh yeah, absolutely. And it makes you do that. I was, I flew to London to see one of my favorite bands. Small band based in the us. They played in a concert hall that held like 2000, 2,500, but I wouldn’t have traded it for the world. Nice.
Justin Vacula: So do you feel manipulated or used?
He says they convinced you’re winning, so you wouldn’t notice you’re being used.
Hunter Threadgill: But it doesn’t matter whether you use cash or credit cards, it’s the budget that’s gonna cause you to get financially further along with your investments and things like that. And I think I am winning because I use a budget.
It’s very similar to what Dave Ramsey preaches, but I also use the credit [00:35:00] card to get all the travel points and miles and have the time of my life flying to the
Justin Vacula: Maldives and not overspending. And you’re paying the balances. You’re not going into debt, you’re not paying massive interest. It’s just not the case.
But they make it to seem that’s the fate for everyone.
Hunter Threadgill: No, it’s definitely not the fate for everyone, and honestly, it’s not even the fate for most people. In my opinion, pretty much most people that I know are responsible with their credit because they realize that if you’re not responsible, it’s gonna cost you a lot more in the long run.
What’s interesting too is if you actually look at credit card usage amongst younger generations, while there are some who are funding their lifestyles on the debt of credit card, you actually find that savings are much higher amongst young people. Including having less credit card debt than older generations did at back when they were younger.
Justin Vacula: All right, we’ll move on to the second one, and it was a positive YouTube comment recently that said, your specialty [00:36:00] is debunking the points of miles misconceptions. So let’s continue with that. This one is from Jade Warshaw, W-A-R-S-H-A-W, who’s one of the Dave Ramsey hosts. She says it takes around six to eight months for your credit score to disappear once you pay off your final debt.
This means the score is zero or becomes indeterminable. And remember, a zero credit score is just as good as a high credit score. In fact, it’s better because it doesn’t require debt. So is a zero credit score better than an 800 credit score?
Hunter Threadgill: I’ve never understood this about Dave Ramsey. His obsession with having a zero credit score.
So first of all, he lit, he just had his house in Nashville go on the market. Actually, not just, it was a couple years ago. It went on the market for $15 million. I think it was 15 million. It was over $10 million. It was a mansion. At least. A mansion, yes. And it’s, did you really buy that without a [00:37:00] mortgage?
Who can afford a house these days without
Justin Vacula: a mortgage? He’ll talk on his show that you can go into what he calls manual underwriting. And it seems like that’s quite a laborious process, but even if you just use the credit responsibly and got it, what’s the problem with that? But again, he’s just gonna argue that everybody’s irresponsible with credit, which isn’t true.
Hunter Threadgill: It is just wild to me that, I guess that’s one way to look at the world, but I think, I just know most people aren’t able to do things that they want to without taking on like a mortgage. Most people won’t ever be able to buy for pay for a house in cash, and there is manual underwriting. It’s a lot more difficult, requires a lot more paperwork.
If you can have a credit score that’s over 800 and it literally costs you nothing, why wouldn’t you just make it easier for yourself and have that credit score?
Justin Vacula: She’s saying here that the zero credit score doesn’t require debt, and they use that quite loosely that you’re going into debt. But if I’m making charges on a card, treating it like a debit card, and then I’m [00:38:00] just paying it off, I could even do it every week.
Every other week. I’m not going into debt unless your definition is so loose. Oh, you owed the money for a week, you were in debt, Justin. I think it’s a real bad mischaracterization from them.
Hunter Threadgill: I think if you look at like the technical definition of debt, then yes, but the practical definition of debt, it’s not debt.
Technically, it is a debt because you do owe it to the credit card company, but practically speaking. If it’s no different than you would pay cash, you just get some points back in the process. That’s not a debt, practically speaking, and what matters is the practical.
Justin Vacula: Yes, I can go to a dentist appointment and they’ll say, oh look, we’ll do the first part of a procedure today.
Come back in three weeks and then I’m gonna have to pay them for the second part of the procedure. Am I in debt? Is that how loose they’re going to make the definition? That’s, is that really different than what we’re doing with credit cards?
Hunter Threadgill: I would argue that if you had to pay for the entire procedure upfront and you had to go back in three [00:39:00] weeks, the dentist is in debt to you.
Oh, they, you pay, you gave them money and they haven’t given you what you paid for. They have a debt to you. But practically speaking, you have your appointment set for three weeks away. It’s all paid for and you’re gonna go get it finished. And they know that. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Be practical. Don’t try and. People have lives to live and if we’re dealing in theoreticals and not what’s practically helpful for people, it doesn’t help anyone.
Justin Vacula: Yeah. So once again, some bad takes from the Ramsey crowd and some people get quite upset about this. And there were some people sending messages recently being quite nasty, some people posting, oh, are you paid off by the financial companies to say these things?
It’s I wish I’ve been. Promoting First National Bank of Omaha for quite a while and the MGM credit cards, but I don’t get any affiliate money. This is about having conversations, having fun teaching other people how to do this to some [00:40:00] extent. And if I do make some money off of this, oh no. Oh no, he’s bad because he made some money.
Is this very dissimilar to. Working a traditional job. This is just something I’m doing on my own terms, but they’re not addressing the arguments like, oh, you’re just paid off by the banks, even though it’s not true.
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, I haven’t seen a dime from a bank other than, yeah, I haven’t seen a dime from a bank in affiliate marketing.
Not really my thing. All right, very good. We’ll move on to a different topic. Any upcoming trips. Yeah, I’m super excited about this. I’m excited to put my Atmos Summit card to use. I’m going to Montreal. A couple, like two years ago, I think there was a promotion between Hyatt and Etha where if you connected your accounts, you drop, they dropped like 500 points in your Etha miles in your Etti Hod account.
For every trip that you booked in Hyatt opened up my Etod account. I had 6,000 miles. So I was able to get a one-way trip to Montreal using my Etti miles that I got from Hyatt. So I’m really excited for that and exploring old [00:41:00] town Montreal, staying at the Hyatt century. And then additionally in February, my wife and I are gonna go check out the new All-Inclusive Secrets Resort in St.
Lucia, a part of the world of Hyatt program, able to get five nights for 145,000 points, which nights were going for 600 bucks a night. And also Oh wow. All my meals and drinks. And as a globalist, I get access to the preferred bar, which has top shelf liquor, which that’s mean what, 15 bucks a pop if you’re getting it at a normal resort.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, nice. I know that people were a fan of the secrets properties like the mocha or mocha. I have a hard time with the pronunciations, but I’ve heard a lot of positive things about the secrets properties.
Hunter Threadgill: I
Justin Vacula: don’t
Hunter Threadgill: think anyone knows how to say that
Justin Vacula: name.
Hunter Threadgill: It’s the impressions.
Justin Vacula: It’s definitely not mochi, the ice cream.
It’s definitely not that one.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh man. Moxie. Not Moxie. ’cause that’s like the, oh
Justin Vacula: no, that’s a Hilton I think. Yeah. Marriot Marriott. Oh, Marriot. Marriott. Marriott. Crew and Radisson Blue was in there. All these funny names.
Hunter Threadgill: Oh [00:42:00] yeah. Oh yeah. But I’ve heard great things about it. It’s a, I’ve read, been reading online about think there’s some service issues right now, but it’s more related to it just being a new resort as opposed to just general poor service.
So I’m looking forward to see what they have to have for us when we take our trip up there in Q1.
Justin Vacula: It’s M-O-X-C-H-E, and there’s a symbol over the E, so maybe people in the comments could have the pronunciation there. Del Carmen, mocha. Oh,
Hunter Threadgill: I don’t know.
Justin Vacula: Matcha. Matcha. Yeah, like the green drink. All right.
Good, good. Anything else you’d like to add as we’re getting towards the end? Wow. Really quickly went by more than 40 minutes.
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah, it’s, I’m just really excited to see where points and miles are going. I think we’re seeing some really cool things coming from programs. A lot of times we like to say the sky is falling ’cause we don’t get as much value as we used to.
But I think it’s just providing new and unique ways to use our points and miles to get to places that we’re never accessible to us. So I’m really looking [00:43:00] forward to seeing what happens over the next year or two within the points in model space.
Justin Vacula: Yeah, that’s definitely something that I’ve come away with after taking all these cruises.
Especially, I would never pay 2000, $3,000 to go on these cruises, but what a cool experience it was to just pay taxes, fees, and wifi on many of these, and sometimes not even having to pay the wifi. So some really cool experiences, meeting people, seeing the world. There was the Norway Fjord cruise recently.
That was really cool. Alaska and the glaciers. Lots, lot’s happening. That sounds amazing. And I’m looking forward to see what American Express does towards the end of the year because they recently refreshed these platinum cards. Maybe they’ll give some more upgrade offers to upgrade existing cards, the personal gold to the personal platinum and maybe gold
Hunter Threadgill: and maybe some big old retention bonuses for those who say, I don’t know, about $900, but maybe
Justin Vacula: Oh, yeah.
Yeah. And for those that aren’t familiar, can you explain that? Retention bonuses?
Hunter Threadgill: Yeah. If you have a card that you do plan on [00:44:00] keeping or. There’s a card you’re on the fence about keeping, give ’em a call and see if they’ll give you a retention bonus to spend $3,000 over the next three months and get 30,000 points, or I’ve seen high as 50 to 75,000 bonus points to get you to keep the card open and start spending on it again.
And it’s really a cost benefit analysis of, given that I’m gonna pay the fee again, if I can get a retention offer to keep it open and the credits make sense, it then becomes. More sensible to actually keep the card open as opposed to closing it because they want to give you more points and miles.
Justin Vacula: Yep.
So for beginners, that’s a good tip that you can call in, say you’re considering canceling because of the annual fee, and if you can mention that the annual fee even went up and, oh, I won’t use this or that benefit, then maybe they’d throw you a bone and give you some kind of rebate or even a discount.
And in the past I’ve even had them say, oh, we’ll completely waive the annual fee. We’ll give you a statement credit for it. So I haven’t heard that recently, but. Never know what these numbers going up. [00:45:00] I’ve
Hunter Threadgill: seen Citi do it to me a couple of times. I think I had a old Citi business, American Airlines card that I had open for four years, and I think I only paid the fee the first year because they kept keeping
Justin Vacula: it open.
Nice. Giving me my annual feedback. All right, and one more time. If you could tell listeners where they can find you online.
Hunter Threadgill: My name is Hunter. I’m the professor of Points. You can find me writing over@thepointsanalyst.com and you can find me on Instagram at professor of Points, all one word. All right.
Thanks for coming on today. Thanks
Justin Vacula: for having me, Justin. All right, and thanks everyone for listening. Stay tuned for future episodes. For more content between podcast, follow Hurdy Gurdy Travel podcast on Facebook and x, follow Justin Vacula, V-A-C-U-L-A on Instagram and subscribe YouTube for daily content including travel videos, podcast clips, and post.
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